Renting in catchment to get sibling in?

[bubblebubblebubblepop]

DD1 is in Yr2 at school. We are now applying for DD2 to start in Reception next year. However she is unlikely to get in as there are more children in catchment than places available (75 children for 60 places according to council). It is also a very popular school and so expect most catchment children to put it down as first choice. We live out of catchment and siblings out of catchment are after catchment (siblings and non-siblings).

DD1 didn't get into our catchment school as that was also very oversubscribed and we didn't live close enough to get in (we stayed on waiting list even after she started school and she still hadn't got in by the end of Reception year so we took her off the list as she was so happy at school).

We are now thinking of renting in catchment for a year (this Dec to next Dec) to get DD2 into the same school. We would really live there, not just rent a flat in name, but would leave our current house unoccupied and move back at the end of next year, after the whole Admissions process and the first term.

We don't want them at different schools as DD1 won't be old enough to get to school on her own next year and it's not physically possible to do 2 school runs. There is no other school close enough to do it (again, our catchment school is oversubscribed again this year - it's Outstanding OFSTED) so we don't even know how far we would have to travel for DD2 if she got a different school.

I know lots of people say this is a terrible thing to do but I think most people do that to get their eldest in, here we are trying to get our youngest in and keep both children together so I can take them both to school.

Is this allowed? Does anybody know anything about it?

Thanks in advance.

It is a risk. If you still own your current house and the LA find out (e.g. by checking Council Tax records) they are likely to take the view that this is not your correct address. That means they can take any place that is offered away even after your daughter has started school. If they find out before places are allocated they may simply treat you as living at your current address. In either case you would then be faced with convincing an appeal panel that the LA had got it wrong.

If you sold your current house rather than leaving it empty you would be less likely to encounter any problems.

I say do what you have to do - no judgement here, although it does sound risky and with no guarantees. Good luck, hope it works out.

I would give it a shot. I do think it's wrong that siblings out of catchment are behind those within the catchment. It's beyond all sense to have 2 kids at different schools. It's just world gone mad IMO so do what you think is necessary.

Any chance of a relative moving in to your old house (and taking on council tax?). Why not just rent it out? Mature students or such might be an idea...

I think you can declare a property you own as unoccupied, especially if you are paying council tax elsewhere. Ie you don't pay tax on it.
It might be worth asking for opinion on property section about this.
Or an estate agent lettings manager should know.

In your situation I would be tempted, it seems like you live in a bit of a black hole not close enough to either school.

I suppose if you split from dh and lived separately with joint custody of the dcs andyou in the xatchment it could work. Has dh been winding you up lately?

"I do think it's wrong that siblings out of catchment are behind those within the catchment."

Even when, as happened in this area, families rented for 6 months to get the first child in, moved out of catchment again and then proceeded to get all siblings in from MILES out of catchment, leaving families a couple of hundred yards from the secondary school with no school place?? (Furthest sibliing admitted from = 5 miles, furthest non-sibling admitted 300 metres)

This year, they have changed the rules to a 'siblings in catchment followed by other children in catchment followed by sublings out of catchment' priority...and there are actually far more places available than there are children in catchment needing them. There must have been 30-40 families each year 'playing the system' by getting 1 sibling in by living in catchment temporarily, then moving out again - no 'first-borns' ever got in from outside catchment, so it's not as if some people were getting in from out of catchment and then their siblings couldn't, it was blatant 'working' the sibling rule.

While, practically, your ruse may work - though round here you WOULD be reported for it by other parents as feelings run very high due to the history of abuse of the system - morally it's ....dubious...

Thank you for all your replies and understanding.

Yes, we tried to sell our house but we couldn't so we're a bit stuck really, and have run out of time.

DH doesn't want to rent our house out as we know of many people who have done that to live abroad/work away, and come back to find their house is trashed - it's our home and we are lucky enough that we can afford not to.

Thanks for the tip on council tax on unoccupied properties - we will look into it.

No, we're not going to live separately - good idea but we're not willing to take it that far!

Very frustrated at the whole situation, but was hoping this might be the answer.

I would do it. I think you should consider renting your house out, though.

teacherwith2kids - I completely see what you are saying about people abusing the rules. I am not thinking of moving into catchment to get my first-born in, she was put there by the LA and we tried for over a year to get her into our catchment so that we wouldn't have to worry about our second daughter. My problem is that she couldn't get into catchment and, not for want of trying on our part, we are likely to have 2 children in different schools, far apart from each other.

prh47bridge - Would renting our house out for the year put us in a better position (if we still only rented in catchment for 1 year)? You seem to be very knowledgable on this topic!

It makes no difference whether you're renting or own the house in catchment as long as you can prove that house is your main/primary residence. Tbh if you also rented out your house & someone then reported you for manipulating the system I can't see how you could get into trouble. There couldn't be any doubt then, that your rented house was your main residence.

In my view renting your house out would make it less likely that the LA would decide it was an attempt to manipulate the system but there are no guarantees. Some LAs look carefully at people who move shortly before the deadline for applications, especially where there is a history of people abusing the system.

I should also add that the fact that you are moving into rented accommodation would also be viewed with suspicion by some LAs. In some areas the use of rented accommodation to try and get a school place is so common that councils are very wary. I've no idea about your LA, though.

Depends on the school - if it's v popular you could be shopped by other parents - keeping a house empty to move back into afterwards is blatantly playing the rules, ie buying your place at the school by renting another house on top of your real house.

Thanks everyone. Got a lot to think about!

A friend of a friend had a similar issue. Her dc1 went to a primary out of catchment because they couldn't get into the local village school. Turned out that school was better for the child anyway and they were delighted with it.

When it came to dc2 they put this school as no:1 choice and were confident they would get the younger sibling in. But they didn't, and were offered the village school instead!

Needless to say, this made pick up / drop off logistics impossible and they appealed on this basis. They won.

Could you make a case on a similar basis, perhaps?

I can understand completely why you would do this. I think it is extremely difficult to have two children in different schools. However, I would keep the plan as private as possible...especially to other Mums. Again, there are always people watching and if their close friends are refused a place then they could draw attention to your situation.
Rent by all means but say it is a stepping stone to buying in th area! I think siblings of out of catchment areas shoule be given higher priority but that is only my opinion.

I have to say that Rosebery's friend was very lucky. Either the appeal panel found some issue which allowed them to admit the younger child or they got it wrong. They are not supposed to admit children just to sort out a logistical problem for the parents unless there are medical issues or similar.

aries12 - I understand your view on priority. However, many popular schools were finding that families with several children would move into catchment to get the eldest in then move miles away knowing that their younger children would all get priority. Local children would then find they couldn't get into the school because of all the out of catchment siblings. Giving out of catchment siblings lower priority is an attempt to solve this problem.

There could be other issues at play regarding the appeal ... I have to admit I don't know the family and so there may be of course more to it.

aries12,

i think that neither system - siblings first or catchment first - is perfect. amnd there will be 'hard cases' whichever system is in place.

However, at the end of the day, is it more unfair for a sibling outside the catchment area to be denied a place in favour of a child inside the catchment area, or the other way round? That is the dilemma for the LAs, and because of widespread abuse of 'unconditional sibling rules' as prh says, a 'conditional sibling' rule which only gives priority to siblings if the family remains within the catchment area is (while not perfect) possibly the best option available.

I can understand stopping the 'renters and movers' abusing the system but when a DC out-of-catchment gets a place due to e.g. a low-birth year, it seems ridiculous that their siblings would be denied a place

Solution: As long as the family are at the same address they get treated the same as siblings in-catchment ?

But what of the non-sibling who lives well inside the catchment but is displaced by this sibling?

They are not in catchment for any other school (whereas the sibling will be in catchment for their own catchment school), and may well have to travel a very long distance to the next alternative. Again, locally, the black hole that developed because of the sibling rule meant some children travelling for hours to an alternative school - because being displaced by out-of-catchment siblings put them lowest priority for any other school.

I would think long and hard about this because some parent who has a child in catchment but didn't get in will report you. Moving at the end of the term that your DC2 starts will raise eyebrows.

I reckon keeping the children at the same school is more important - and if the first child got a place fairly then that should take priority

Just my opinion though

Personally in your situation I would probably do what you intend to do. We took a smaller house (relocated 100 miles with DH's job) to get into an outstanding primary school.

Once ds2 was offered a place we moved 3 miles away, we always needed a much bigger house than the one we took and we had neighbours from hell. Where we are there is no catchment area so it is just siblings in but if the siblings category is oversubscribed then it goes as the crow flies and we didn't want to take the risk. Hence moving after ds2 was in in the knowledge that the siblings category wasn't oversubscribed as first born children also got in.

I used to work in council tax and IIRC with my rusty old brain you would still pay a full charge for the house you own and a second home rate on the rented property. It is all to do with security of tenure. As you own the house you would be seen as intending to return whereas renting is temporary if you own a property elsewhere.

Ring the council tax department, without giving your address and ask the question. You don't even need to ring your own council, it is legislation so it applies across the country.

Good luck. I do totally understand why you would want to do it.