'black book' as punishment book :( in primary school.

[noonar]

my dd1 is 9. her friend stayed for a sleepover last night as she has moved to a new school in a nearby town.

dd's friend dislikes her new school and it seems very authoritarian from what she has said. she then when on to tell me how children who misbehaved went in the 'black book'.

i was totally shocked that the school thinks it's ok to have such a negative connotation attached to the word 'black'. this was esp noticeable to me, as dd's friend is black.

she was telling us about some racism that she had experienced at the new school, then told us about the 'black book'. my knee jerk, gut reaction was to be appalled that the book has been given this name. i am not saying that i had time to reflect and then decide to be shocked in a politically correct way. i was instantly taken aback.

to those of you who may say i'm overthinking this...we have a golden book at out school for good behaviour. things golden are considered good, no? what then, does the black book suggest?

i have many years teaching experience and have years of experience studying multi-culturalism, so may be a bit 'biased'.

what do you think? just genuinely interested in your personal reaction to this.

Its bobbins either way

If it is an actual black book then the school should have thought harder about what they were doing
If the naughty book is described as a black book then that is even worse
Black mark against your name, black mood etc all re-enforce the idea that there is something bad about the word black

Kids don't need to be given that impression in school

Oh ds2 calla it q black board says it's black mum its the colour of it

But yes the actual racism needs addressing if kids are saying that but as a separate issue

with all respect to your kid - dont think we need to make equality policy based on his ideas.

The phrase "Black book" is an historic one going back 600 years. The agents of the king (particularly in the reformation) wrote the names of those requiring censure in black books.

I am horrified that any reference to a colour even in a non-racial context can have racial connotations.

I can see why this could be the case, but it seems to be that we should be trying to overcome this problem by adressing it head on rather than avoiding any mention of certain colours in certain ways.

Using black to describe intangible things (black mood, black heart) is quite culturally engrained and does not derive from comments about skin colour. We should be creating a society where people can appreciate that rather than one where they become paranoid about the use of quite ordinary phrases in case there is a whiff of imaginary racisim.

A child will not necessarily be aware that the equation "black=bad" is seeping into his subconscious to remain there for the rest of his life. That doesn't mean it's all fine and dandy. It should be changed.

Eyelash no but as dc that is mixed rave his view point counts for something

And who are people to tell him what he should find offensive ,he gets fed up when people tell him that oh that's offensive to all black people

Just to clarify I'm talking thingla Luke black book , black heart etc not proper racism

Er not really

The reasons why bad things have been describe as black for a very long time was purely because people of black or darker skin were seen as suspicious or evil in the past.

Continuing using these pointless terms does not remove the connotations but will lessen them over time.
If we stop saying black mark, black listed, black book then bit by bit it will be that bad things are not associated with black

"The reasons why bad things have been describe as black for a very long time was purely because people of black or darker skin were seen as suspicious or evil in the past."
No, It is far older than that! It is more because black and dark is scary (i.e. have you ever travel in the dark alone). Black is the night... And the black=scary arise also in monocultural people (i.e entirely white or black)

I agree with LeMousquetaireAnonyme, the dark and night has been a source of fear and stories for over a millenium in our culture.

To be in my black books. In disgrace; out of favour. The black books were those compiled in the reign of Henry VIII. to set forth the scandalous proceedings of the English monasteries, and were so called from the colour of their binding

The school should NOT have called it a Black Book simply because they should have know there are idiots out there like the OP who will use it as a stick to beat the school with.

On a slightly different note a recent report from a London borough recommended that teachers should not use only white paper in class we should use lots of different colours and when a child asks me my favourite colour I should lie and say black or brown. I actually like blue best which I guess makes me racist.

Using different coloured paper is often easier for those with dyslexia or on the spectrum. Doesn't have to be a racist link.

Was the borough Brent by any chance?

DownbytheRiverside coloured paper for dyslexia yes ... black or brown perhaps not I find blue or aqua best

What About the Dark Ages? Or the black death?

Should we rename?

You cannot redefine man's fundamental fear of the dark. No matter what race they are.

To try to do so is cultural vandalism.

Oh FFS! I thought my encounter with the HV was ridiculous enough. School are not saying black is bad they are saying the black book is bad. Why is that too difficult to comprehend?

I actually think over analysing such things causes more racial issues. They are not being racist by describing the book as black they are merely describing the book. I doubt they have deliberately chosen a black book, it was probably what was available and that's how is should be.

And I agree that we should be more concerned that this poor girl is actually suffering real racial abuse rather than inventing some that isn't there.

hello the humancatapult . just want to say that i am also mixed race and entitled to my view, just like your ds

AICM i am an idiot, because i have a view that differs from you? is that the best you can do?

it's interesting that some people who disagree with me who feel the need to resort to mud slinging as part of arguing their case.

from my OP :what do you think? just genuinely interested in your personal reaction to this

why not just put forward you point of view in a civil way? this is not AIBU! i wanted a proper grown up discussion.

thanks for all of the more thoughtful responses.

"The reasons why bad things have been describe as black for a very long time was purely because people of black or darker skin were seen as suspicious or evil in the past."
No, It is far older than that! It is more because black and dark is scary (i.e. have you ever travel in the dark alone). Black is the night... And the black=scary arise also in monocultural people (i.e entirely white or black)

lemousqu i am actually very interested about the historical origins of the association of black with evil. if i find anything interesting on the net, will post it.

I think it is awful that you have a "golden book" - whats that if not ainti - gingers !!!!!!

How do you justify to youtrself that you will complain about black=bad but positively applaud gold=good ???

I think you are an idiot because your views idiotic.

ARE idiotic

It has little to do with the colour black. Clearly it is associated with darkness and night. I guess my statement came from the common metaphors that abound giving black a negative connotation. I feel that it is fair that we question their use and validity and therefore would strongly question the use of a black book in a school to record negative behaviour or having a "black mark" taken and used to denote bad behaviour.

You could have a quick look at christianity for some association of blackness with evil. The devil once a white angel when he falls from grace becomes the Prince of Darkness.
Good is white, equalling the peace dove etc
Equally I can think of a fair bit of Shakespeare that had really poor examples of behaviour attributed to black people and that would seem a fair representation of the racism that has been in the UK at least from then onward

I think it's thoughtless and unnecessary and we need to be aware of how common language can subtly re enforce racism on some levels

Would we be having this debate if the school used the phrases whitewash, white elephant, white flag or white feather? All of these use white in a negative way.If you have no problem with these phrases what right do you have to complain about black book and black mark?

slight hijack AICM you have started a thread that had a very interesting topic. It seems you have not come back to it after your OP and it sadly descended into a teachers agaist not teachers thread.

Perhaps they should have a book with an explosion of colour and call it the angry bad behaviour book

But seriously it shouldn't be used as a punishment book. There is too much record keeping and not enough behaviour managment in our schools I don't think this book sounds very helpful