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Primary education

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Original poster

'black book' as punishment book :( in primary school.

105 replies

noonar · 26/10/2011 09:02

my dd1 is 9. her friend stayed for a sleepover last night as she has moved to a new school in a nearby town.

dd's friend dislikes her new school and it seems very authoritarian from what she has said. she then when on to tell me how children who misbehaved went in the 'black book'.

i was totally shocked that the school thinks it's ok to have such a negative connotation attached to the word 'black'. this was esp noticeable to me, as dd's friend is black.

she was telling us about some racism that she had experienced at the new school, then told us about the 'black book'. my knee jerk, gut reaction was to be appalled that the book has been given this name. i am not saying that i had time to reflect and then decide to be shocked in a politically correct way. i was instantly taken aback.

to those of you who may say i'm overthinking this...we have a golden book at out school for good behaviour. things golden are considered good, no? what then, does the black book suggest?

i have many years teaching experience and have years of experience studying multi-culturalism, so may be a bit 'biased'.

what do you think? just genuinely interested in your personal reaction to this.

OP posts:
LadyWord · 26/10/2011 09:43

OP you are not overthinking, you are right IMO. No it's not racist, but yes it is unfortunate, stupid and potentially damaging. You would think any teacher, but especially if the class has black children in it, would have enough nous to give the "naughty" book a name that isn't also a skin-term colour, with a tradition of negative connotations. And yes, even though any sensible person can see it's not the same thing, it still can have a deep, ongoing effect on children's assessment of themselves - black=bad, black=bad, black=bad being drip-fed into them all the time. A good class teacher would take the opportunity to counteract that, not reinforce it.

Original poster
noonar · 26/10/2011 09:43

chunky i find myself shaking my head in disbelief. i am sorry but, it is sheer ignorance of the issue of race in social and historical terms to suggest that the subtle connection made between blackness and 'thing bad' is a non issue Sad

OP posts:
LemonPeel · 26/10/2011 09:44

I think that the colour black must go if it is always going to be linked to racism.

Eyelasher · 26/10/2011 09:45

its not always linked to racism.

FrightNight · 26/10/2011 09:45

I don't think it's either the book or it's colour or purpose are what would worry me.

It's the fact that this child has directly encountered direct racism in her school.

If she were my child thats what would have me making an appointment with the Head.

Original poster
noonar · 26/10/2011 09:45

yes chunky, its all my fault Hmm

OP posts:
Eyelasher · 26/10/2011 09:46

YOU LINK IT TO RAcism

ARFARFARF

no kids do you numptoids

LadyWord · 26/10/2011 09:46

Chunky - you are missing the point! You just can't see that you are.

Tianc · 26/10/2011 09:47

Only where it has negative connotations, LemonPeel.

So little black dress, fine (literal description, neutral)
blackboard (neutral)

ChunkyPickle · 26/10/2011 09:48

No, it's not ignorance at all, it's moving on.

I don't hold grudges for all sorts of things that have happened to 'my people' in the past, I don't worry about phrases in speech that have dodgy origins, and I certainly don't think that going on about some supposed link is helpful or productive in race relations (a term which I do find a bit offensive, since race really has nothing to do with culture, although they can co-incide)

LemonPeel · 26/10/2011 09:48

Now listen here, you should not judge a book by it's cover {grin}

Original poster
noonar · 26/10/2011 09:48

gotta go, but back this evening. happy debating....

OP posts:
FrightNight · 26/10/2011 09:48

Stop getting your knickers in a twist about the possible subliminal effects, the child has reported actual racism.

ChunkyPickle · 26/10/2011 09:49

Kids are not 'racist' unless learned. What they are is 'differentist' they'll pick on what ever is different about a kid - glasses, size, skin colour, height etc. and making one of those somehow a worse crime than the others is a problem in my book (whatever colour that book is)

RiversideMum · 26/10/2011 09:50

My children's junior school had a "book" system as part of its behaviour management scheme and it worked really well. If the children got their name in the book 3 times in a week they missed a break time. I doubt if the OPs school chose black specifically, it is probably just coincidence, and the book probably doesn't need a colour at all, but on balance I'd agree it's something that should have been thought about.

LadyWord · 26/10/2011 09:50

Exactly Tianc. There is nothing wrong with black chess pieces, little black dress, blackboard etc because they are simply descriptive and carry no value judgement.

A "black book" where bad people's names are written down does associate the colour black with a value judgement. Since historically and still today, there is racism against the group of people described as "black", that is inviting the link to be made, even if that wasn't the intention.

ghoulionine · 26/10/2011 09:51

"you dont have a whole racial group referred to formally as "yellow people" do you?"

Really? IME as a child in a country very incline to casual racisme Sad( I was at the other end of it not because of colour but I was foreign non the less)the only colours that were not used to describe someone's skin colour were purple and blue (gree used for aliens) and saddly, yellow was in the top 3 to describe people from the far east.

LadyWord · 26/10/2011 09:51

But FrightNight this is relevant as it's the kind of thing that gives the other kids an opportunity for racist remarks.

LadyWord · 26/10/2011 09:53

OK what if the book was called the "Jade" book and there was a Jade in the class. Of course it doesn't mean the same thing, of course it's not intentional, but it's a license to bully, and any sensible teacher would change it.

Eyelasher · 26/10/2011 09:53

basicallt it all boils down to manners

TheHumancatapult · 26/10/2011 09:56

Noonar

Ds2 is mixed race but have just asked him and he is mum it's a book and is just the colour of the dam thing

If kids are talking and makkng jokes maybe there's more if problem than a black book and school and more so parents need to address the issue

Ds2 does not see himself as a colour he just see himself as him .Says a colour does not define a person it is who you are and how you behave

Tianc · 26/10/2011 09:57

Excellent example, LadyWord.

Btw, agree that actual racist incident gets higher priority. But that will probably be in the hands of the girl's parents, not the OP.

FrightNight · 26/10/2011 09:58

Really? We're wringing our hands about possible outcomes of a subliminal connotation when there is evidence of actual racism.

Deal with the actual racism whilst addressing the culture of the school and if the book issue needs to be addressed include that too.

Goldenbrown1981 · 26/10/2011 09:58

I'm sorry, but I'm with the people who say you are reading too much into this. It's a book, it's colour is black. No different to a red book (which is what we have) or a yellow book. Are we no longer allowed to use colours as descriptors? It's not like there is a white book for children who have been good (if there was, I could more see your point)

You make the comment about whiteboard having no negative connections. I agree, but if this is the case why is a whiteboard a whiteboard but a blackboard now a chalkboard? At Uni traiining to be a teacher I was instructed not to call a blackboard a blackboard, so why is a whiteboard not a penboard?

I think this is a LITTLE bit of the dreaded 'political correctness gone mad'.

LetTheSlaughterBeGincognito · 26/10/2011 09:59

I think it's inappropriate. It does contribute to 'black = bad'. It has no place in a school.

I think the naming of the book is unlikely to have been malicious. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged. Could you mention it to the girl's parents?

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