Homework Rant

[AICM]

As a teacher I'm taking a risk ranting about parents on this site but I thought you might like to see the other side! Here goes. Some comments about my homework ALL from parents evening last week:
Homework is too hard.
Homework is too easy.
There is too much homework.
There is not enough homework.
I'm too strict about deadlines.
I'm not strict enough about deadlines.
Homework should only be academically focused.
Homework should be more fun.

I appear to have upset everyone!

On a serious point what do you want from homework?

Lechilly, do you know what, in 4 1/2 years of posting on here I have never once corrected anyone's grammar or spelling, but when someone is shouting at me that "that is my job" and generally being rude and unpleasant please tell me why I shouldn't respond in kind?

Childish maybe, but I've had a shit day and am sick to the back teeth of parents like pop telling me how to do my job.

You will never please everyone! There is only homework in the primary school because parents put on the pressure, but a sizeable number don't want any.

LOL you should try teaching in a university. All those comments apply and more, only the students put it down on the National Student Survey which in turn becomes a public record.

PointyBlackHat the homework set by school helps me to support my child. Things have changed enormously and I would find it hard to do this on my own.

I really do think in my case the school has the right approach. There is no pressure to carry out what has been set (other than competitive parenting). I really feel like I work in partnership with the school and that they are very considerate of my child's individuality. If parents don't want their child to do homework then they don't have to. I will support homework and believe my DS has progressed further because of this.

My pet hate is homework during the holidays for primary children. My Dd who is just seven had to do a detailed book review during the Summer hols, this half term she has two research projects.....i.e I have two research projects. I spent from 10:30 - 12 :15 this morning doing half a project...she has no idea how to do this...I got two A4 pages done..that is a few pictures/writing and a map. My Dd is apparently very good at Literacy and she struggled with this....I pity children who have difficulties...perhaps they got something easier...I do not know.
I really believe children should be allowed (especially primary children) a complete break during the hols. They need time to play/relax/go to the park/watch t.v and even read if they want.
Homework during the school week serves a purpose and I don't object to it as much.

aries12 My Ds is in year 1 and has to research Edinburgh over half term, so i'm another one thats having to do the research for my DC. Ok so Edinburgh isn't difficult to research but it's not homework for a 5yr old it's homework for me!

Childish maybe, but I've had a shit day and am sick to the back teeth of parents like pop telling me how to do my job.

Again I shall say teaching is not the profession that other people think they know best.

Thats life I am afraid....teachers need to get over themselves...[some teachers are lovely though]

teacherwith2kids it is very middle class of me to not see reading with and to my children as homework and you have made a very valid point. But the worksheets, the projects, the work set that spoils what should be a carefree half term - it all makes my blood boil. The balance has shifted way, way too far.

Alexironingboard I appreciate that teaching methods have changed, but schools have other ways of informing parents of the changes than setting endless repetitive homework. We are living in a world where there are many households where both parents are having to work f/t with commute, just to make ends meet. In that situation homework needs to be very, very carefully thought through so as to be just what it should be - supportive, not another infringement on precious family time.

I would also ask the question why it is that homework is considered so much more necessary now than it was when I was at primary. I admit that the work my DDs are doing now is harder than what I was doing at their ages - and I was considered very able back then, I'm very proud of them - but it is not so hard and not so different from what I learned and how I learned that a decent information sheet on modern methods wouldn't have sufficed.

I also had an encounter with algebra not so long ago, courtesy of my DD, then in Yr 5. I asked her to show me the method she had learned for working out a simple equation (along the lines of 2x-x = x+4). The method she had been taught made no sense and she clearly didn't understand it, so I showed her the way I had been taught it and she got it straight away. Her teacher was perfectly happy with her using this method. In many cases the modern methods of teaching, especially in maths, are better than the old ways, but not always. The point here is that a supportive parent with a good education will usually do well by their child, whether or not the school sets acres of homework. Conversely a disengaged parent with not much interest in their child's learning will not be supportive, no matter how much work comes home.

PointyBlackHat I think of the homework as family time. I did not learn to read using phonics. The system used by this school is nothing like I have done before. They teach sounds and letter formation at the same time. I may have had a much better experience than you have with regard to homework. For me it is a way of seeing what my DS is doing at school and gives me pointers as to how I can re-enforce learning.

I think we are agreeing in a way with regard to supportive parents. I totally understand it is difficult for working parents to fit everything in.

Speaking as a parent of KS1 I want
Reading and a balance of fun number activities- why is homework nearly always literacy based?
I would like to see a range of fun maths games and open ended practical tasks which the children can do at home.
NO boring photocopied sheets from homework resource books please!

Popadop, I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. I answered your earlier criticism with a lengthy post which you didn't bother to comment on. I am genuinely baffled as I really don't understand what you are saying.

Are you suggesting that teachers are setting hw because they cannot fit the curriculum in during the day? Because that, quite frankly, is bollocks! HW is not the day's school work being sent home due to lazy teaching or bad time management. It is an extra, being used to consolidate work being done in class or stretch pupils to consider the concept further. It is also LEA policy in many areas to set a certain amount for each year group. Therefore, whilst many teachers disagree with it in principle, they have no choice but to send home hw to comply with their job contracts.

Pointy, as a parent, I have never considered reading at home to be homework but it is considered homework for schools' own purposes of seeing progression in what is expected to be done at home from YR-Y6. Also, many parents sadly do see it as a chore and many children go through their whole primary career without ever being heard read at home. Therefore, sending home letters suggesting reading at home at least ensures that some children who would not otherwise be heard will be, even if just a handful of times a year.

Oh yes- NO projects that involve research for KS1 kids. I only want homework that is reinforcing stuff they have done at school, I don't want to teach them something new- if they can't do it with a good degree of independence then there is no point, it becomes the parents homework not the childs.

*Popadop, you say that the solution is after school homework clubs but you also say it should all be individual so if a teacher is spending half an hour after school helping the child who is struggling that week with fractions, what should the child struggling with commas be doing at this time? Twiddling her thumbs and waiting for her individual input?

Also, if the class teachers were to do this every night then who is going to hold all the after school activity clubs that parents and kids are so keen on? Who will take them to netball fixtures or run computer club? Oh and if a teacher is giving extra tuition until 5pm when do they do their marking and prep for the following morning?

Rubbish homework is simply pointless. Homework should be given out as and when it is appropriate to consolidate what is going on in class. There should be no teaching necessary as the children should be doing work based on what they are currently learning in class.*

So what happens in class then if pupil A does not understand, who explains it while the others are twiddling their thumbs?

There are plenty of teachers to do after school clubs, well there are at ds school.

Teachers so I am to believe have half a day a week to prepare lessons, they do in ds school,,,,works very well.

It is all about time management.

I think my children's school have a good balance.

DS1 in Yr 2, has weekly spellings, handed out on a Friday - for the following Friday. He has a reading book which is supposed to be changed weekly although I do wish it was more often, but we read at home instead every night. He has a project over holidays normally - this half term he has had to do a book report on his favourite book.

DS2 is in Nursery (3-4yrs) - he has a sound book home every day, a "reading book" (currently nursery rhymes) changed a couple of times a week, key words added to weekly if he has learned them and a project to do every weekend based on the topic they have been learning about that week.

I like doing homework with them. I can understand it could get a little too much if it was too often or if parents are working long hours though.

"Teachers so I am to believe have half a day a week to prepare lessons, they do in ds school,,,,works very well."

Can I laugh at this point? This theory would work very well IF children were machines - put the prepared lesson in one end, crank the handle, they come out having learned exactly was expected... crank the handle again, next lesson through...

What happens in actual fact is that I plan a week's worth of maths and literacy lessons and then deliver the first. Observation and assessment (informal, continuous, formative assessment - the 'that child has got it, that one needs support, that one has a gap in a previous step that needs revisiting' type) during that lesson means that I then adjust the next lesson's plans to take account of the progress made in the first and any areas of difficulty (or unexpected ability) that may have been uncovered. So I adjust my plans between lesson 1 and 2. Then, of course, by lesson 3 the originally planned lesson is out of kilter with reality.... sometimes we have covered more, sometimes less, sometimes the children will need a different approach or different resources or i will have a useful discussion with a colleague who suggests a new resource or a different approach .. so I replan lesson 3 before I deliver it (and create a new plan for my TA to work with a small group either on an extension task or on a particularly knotty area of difficulty). By then, that nice neat weekly plan is covered in notes and revisions and I replan lessons 4 and 5 (not to mention mark, assess, create resources for etc).

The idea that planning is a once-a-week activity, that can be done for all subjects of the curriculum in a couple of hours one afternoon, is not a picture that I recognise.

I also presume that your son attends a relatively large school. We have 5 teachers in total - we would have 4 but one class has a jobshare. We all run after school clubs because otherwise we could not possibly cover the wide range of opportunities the children deserve. I am not quite certain why I should also run a homework club just because you do not want your son to do homework at home? I am available to be asked about homework before school, after school, at lunchtime, at break time ...

Alexironingboard - Yes, I think we are in agreement, and you are clearly fortunate enough to have a sensible school. I am beginning to see some homework that I approve of - DD1 in Yr6 is doing poetry this term and is working on appreciating poetry, understanding imagery and also understanding the more technical parts of poetry - simile, alliteration, personification and so on. She is being encouraged to do lots of her own writing, not necessarily finished pieces but snippets where an idea takes her. It means we can talk about poetry, develop ideas and discuss how the everyday world around us can be an inspiration, and I really like it.

I also have no objection to spelling, I think it's essential. I do however object to the boring worksheets which add nothing to family life and are simply a chore, on a par with taking the bins out. It could all be done so much better - if only 1) successive governments stopped their endless meddling and trusted teachers to teach (and parents did the same) and 2) the same governments and parents overcame their addiction to statistics - as if they prove anything, the old adage about lies, damned lies etc. still holds true.

I feel that a lot of the joy has gone out of learning, and it must have gone out of teaching too, in many ways.

Firstly, if a child doesn't understand in class then the others are getting on with their independent work so freeing up a few minutes for the teacher to go over it again. But an after school type thing where 2 children were waiting for two totally different concepts to be explained again is totally different.

Secondly, by half day a week I assume you're talking about PPA! It is taken up mainly with paperwork and long term planning not the day to day needs of a classroom. So a teacher couldn't set up the classroom to look like a Greek market on the Tuesday afternoon in preparation for the Thurday afternoon history lesson. Nor could I set out a certain amount of counters/beads/dice etc for a maths lesson later in the week. So yes, PPA allows for long term planning and catching a few minutes with, say, the SENCo to discuss a certain child and making sure the profiles are all up to date etc but it certainly does not remove the need to prepare and often set out the following day's lesson after school the night before. Nor does it help with marking the books each day after school. At junior level, maths and English needs marking each evening so as to identify any common misunderstandings and cover them the next morning and check for children who have totally misunderstood and need a little extra input the next day.

And don't delude yourself into thinking that a good teacher is one who makes sure that every child has covered enough each day never to need consolidation. Teaching and learning just isn't like that. But then, I no longer teach despite being on the AST programme. So instead of spending every day doing a thankless task (which I happened to love) I have taken my good Alevels, RG degree, PGCE and Masters and I'm now be using them to earn more money with less stress.

Oh and everything TW2K has said with regards formative assessment. Paper based planning is all very well but it's a bad teacher who goes through the year always sticking rigidly to those plans for the sake of 'time management'.

Frequently, especially on first visiting a maths topic, your Wednesday lesson will need to be replaced by an extra day of Tuesdays's lesson so, in effect, Friday's lesson gets squeezed or doesn't happen until next time. Or sometimes those who have completely understood, can do the Friday challenge type lesson for homework that week!

"Teachers so I am to believe have half a day a week to prepare lessons, they do in ds school,,,,works very well."

Can I laugh at this point?

Do-people have no understanding at all!

You will never get an agreement on homework-I can't tell you how many school meetings I have sat through and some parents will always think there is tooo much and some parents will always think there is too little. I can't see it changing.

What do you do now lovingthecoast ? just curious- looking for career change.

Pop, I assume you're planning to train to be a teacher? You're such an expert in the field you really should - then you would be able to use all your fabulous expertise in the classroom.

loving, I am also intrigued as to what you do now - also considering a career change just can't decide what to do.

Yes my son attends a large primary 450 children I do not know how many teachers exactly.

It is a subject that will never be agreed on. [homework]

I would never take work home to do [from work] I never have and never will neither has my OH.

I will teach my son the same ''work is work' home is home'' if you do not learn this at an early age your employer will squeeze more and more out of you and your life becomes your work. [doing unpaid overtime is my bug bear and only mugs do it]

It may suit some but as a family we would rather be on the beach or at a theme park enjoying ourselves rather than waiting for 'mum or dad' to finish a report.

I believe this starts at school, school work should be done ''at school''

Only my opinion though.

Wow guys - this is all getting a bit heated. Teachers are feeling grumpy and parents are getting grumpy. I'm kind of afraid to post this - but it is coming as a parent who is at a school that up to this year was pretty disorganised and gets homework out more like once a fortnight to once a month. OFSTED is coming so suddenly they've got very together this year.

I think onefatcat who clearly is posting as a parent is making some sensible suggestions. I don't think parents doubt that teachers work hard, but sometimes we don't understand why giving children the opportunity at practice/ reinforcement isn't more of a priority. (StitchingMoss - I stress that you clearly are doing all sorts, but please accept that other schools might not be).

I had our head teacher tell me I had to understand my daughter just wasn't that bright. She simply refused to accept that what was missing was regular homework in maths to help reinforce learning and give the opportunity to practice. I've posted elsewhere about the solution we found. My daughter couldn't take 1 from 10 in March of Y2 and now (Oct Y4) she's in top maths group and has completed addition/ subtraction/ multiplication/ column addition and yesterday column subtraction to 3 digits on Mathsfactor themathsfactor.com/ - I can't praise or thank Carol Vorderman enough! She believed my DD could learn maths when nobody else would (ok remotely - but constant encouragement and great ideas/ games/ tricks all made it fun and the practice made the learning possible). OK I do take an evil pleasure in sending my DDD in with her Mathsfactor certificates to tell the head teacher - so apologies teachers out there.

I've actually signed up to TES just to download resources. I've found things on the BBC Learning BETA www.bbc.co.uk/learning/ and I've spent a lot of time reading up on what should ideally be covered in particular years (campaign for real education has some very clearly written guidance - www.cre.org.uk/ - just click primary & then select curriculum you want). I've done this out of shear frustration with a school that won't even commit to teaching addition of all numbers 1 - 20 by Year 2.

Clearly some schools and teachers are doing great things out there but I'm afraid not every school. If you're frustrated as a parent, try working with the school/ teachers but if they give you the brush off (in my case I was told they're far to busy to give weekly maths homework and they don't recommend work books and that was the end of the conversation) then just start hunting out ideas and resources yourself.

All sorts of people are saying it is a partnership - so as a parent, if you can make the time (and sometimes that is a struggle) - find those resources. KS1/ 2 bitesize games off the BBC can reinforce or add knowledge where you fear your child is weak or completely missing the idea. Set them to playing a game, whilst you clean or cook. Print out worksheets for the doctors/ dentist. Read guidebooks to historic houses/ museums together to learn about art/ history/ etc... And let them read anything and everything with you, whilst they want to 'hang out' with Mum and Dad, because they'll not want to do so forever.

I'm afraid I have no experience of the 'too much homework is coming home situation' - but from where I'm sitting I genuinely wish my DDs were at a school like that!

Oh it's not very exciting! I'm re-training to be a chartered accountant. I've been fortunate enough to get a training contract with a large accountancy firm who seem to value my qualifications and previous experience. It does make me sad because I did love teaching and have taught from Nursery through to secondary. I also felt, corny as it sounds, like I was making a difference.
DH is a lawyer for a large investment bank so now neither of us will be 'giving back'.

Popadop, two last points; Firstly, if all teachers took the same attitude about not taking work home then, quite literally, the whole system would collapse. Nothing would ever get done. Seriously, teachers and the school system cannot function without teachers taking work home almost every night of their career. This has nothing to do with bad time management but simply that there is too much that needs to be done after the day has finished and before the new day begins.

Secondly, you seem to be confusing homework with classwork. Once again, homework is not classwork being sent home because the teacher cannot fit it in during the day. It is sent home to supplement class work and many teachers have no choice but to comply with their school's homework policy whether they agree with it or not. Schools have such policies because government and many parents want that supplementary work sent home.

Pastsellbydate, your post clearly illustrates the point many teachers have made on this thread. Your views are in direct opposition to those of Popadop. Popadop feels that no HW should ever be sent home and that if teachers do their jobs properly, everything needed will be covered in class.

Many other parents agree when they have come to see me exasperated as to how two parents getting home from work just before 6pm can possibly be expected to fit in hw as well as eating and family time.

If a child is doing very well academically then parents tend to see it as pointless but often parents who see their child as struggling a little want as much support from school as possible to raise the attainment of their child.

As has been said many times on this thread, schools cannot please everyone as parents hold such differeing views.