Year 1 concerns

[gloriahoneybum]

We had ds's parent evening and I told his teacher I was concerned about his reading and writing. She said his reading was slightly below that for his age - He's 5, summer born and reading ginn level 2 but that in a recent assessment he was showing as a 1c which is the expected level at this stage. She agreed his writing is below the expected level but that we should not be concerned at this stage. He has only really just starting to attempt any writing but he has been able to write his name since last year back in reception (It's an easy one!!). She said he knows 30 of the 44 phonics sounds and about 20 hfw. Is this ok at this stage? I was quite sad looking through his workbooks as there seems to be very little in them but again she didn't think this was something to worry about. I think part of my problem is his sister is in y2 and at the other end of the scale and I cant help but compare to what she was doing this time last year. I didn't mention this to the Teacher as I know the golden rule is never to compare children but I can't help myself.

Do we just sit back and chill and let things hopefully progress? How long should we wait? His behaviour is acceptable but not brilliant (Teacher's words!) and he does have impulsive tendencies at times where he knows he shouldn't be talking or being silly but does it anyway. She said he responds well to praise and he does have some self esteem issues. Often saying he can't do something before he even tries. He is happy doing his homework - he gets 10 spellings and will write out the words but I cannot see how he could write them out again say 5 days later without any help. Again she didn't bring this up as a problem. I was slightly reassured after meeing the teacher but still have nagging doubts. She gave some good ideas for low key help at home where he's not aware he's even learning and I've read lots of interesting stuff on here but any more advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for waffling on

Its natural for you to compare your son and daughter, you're not a teacher (I think! Apologies if you are) so why on earth should you know what a Year 1 is capable of? I once met a parent who's eldest was easily a level 3 in year 1, very gifted child. When her second child couldn't spell his name in reception she was disappointed and couldnt see that her daughter was very gifted and therefore an awful comparison! She just assumed that writing full stories in year 1 was normal.

Just below the expected level at this stage in the year I wouldn't worry about. Remember (ALL parents!) 'below expected' is not the same as SEN!! There always have to be some children below average otherwise it isn't an average. It doesn't mean he is struggling or that he will have problems as he goes up school.

Bearing in mind his behaviour, the fact he's a boy and summer born he sounds perfectly normal. He's doing a lot of social learning and wont always be that bothered about writing. It also sounds like he's become a little disheartened when he isn't good at everything and just needs time to become more confident.

Listen to his teacher. She is saying 'don't worry' because you shouldn't worry, she's not just fobbing you off.

With his spellings try practising them a couple more times before the test. Talk to him about the words, what they start with and what sounds are in them. If he knows 30 sounds you'll probably be surprised at how good he is!

Thank you Wellthen I am sure you are right that I should listen to his teacher. I keep telling myself he's only 5 he'll get there so for now I'm going to try and leave things as they are. You're right I'm not a teacher! I am a TA but in a school for children with complex disabilities so a different perspective all together at my school! Thanks again.

Don't worry, if he was in scandanavia he wouldn't be at school yet. .And he's only a couple of months older than my son who has just started reception and can't write anything other than his name, and can read maybe a little less than your son- can do the very easy level 1/2 but still needs to build his phonics before doing anything harder. Wait until he's 6 or 6 and a half, then if he's still behind get help.

Yes Tgger that's true he wouldn't be expected to do any of this yet in many countries. I feel he would have been better starting reception this year as he seems ready whereas last year alot of what the class were doing went over his head. He seemed to spend alot of time 'experimenting' with the sand and water and anything messy he could get his hands on!

I would try to read at home every day, including weekends and holidays (both you to him and he to you). If there is no progress made by end of December, I would arrange another meeting with his teacher and ask if he would qualify for reading recovery (assuming his school does reading recovery).

The fact that in many countries he would not even have started to read is neither here nor there. He lives in the UK and has to make do with the UK system. The risk of not intervening in a timely manner is that he possibly gets further and further behind which could impact on his confidence on top of everything else.

Thanks dikkertjedap. I've always read stories at bedtime with them and they both have a love of books. Up until a month ago he would always refuse to read himself but will now read one of his read write inc books to me if not too tired. He doesn't really like these and reading is very hard work for him as he doesn't seem to have a very good memory for tricky words.

Hi GloriaHB

First - like many have said he's only 5 and won't be 6 until the summer - so he's at the younger end of the age range for Y1. At this age this is a huge difference and for boys, often the social skills come a bit slower. I also think girls seem to progress slightly faster in school at this age.

I think most boys get a bit headstrong now and then, so I wouldn't worry too much about behaviour, but it can't hurt to stress at home that he should be a good boy for his teachers. I suspect the teachers will help get that under control too!

It sounds like what you're really worried about is the writing. Certainly neither of my DDs were very good writers when they started Y1. You can encourage all sorts of writing at home. Copying out spelling is a great because it reinforces the phonemes (sounds groups) the teachers are setting. So it may seem silly - but have him write out the spelling for a few minutes each night. Maybe no more than 5 times each word. But make it interesting. How fast can you write X? How neatly can you write X? Can you make a sentence with 3 of your spelling words? Play hang man with the spelling words. But make your son to all the writing. It's practice without realising it.

Finally any and every excuse for sending post cards, thank you notes and letters you should have your son write. Write off for competitions in children's magazines. Have him make his friends birthday cards. Send a card to school if you go on holiday. You will find that slowly but surely with each practice the writing will improve.

Other than that I think you should relax and enjoy your 5 year old. It goes so quickly these early years. I wouldn't worry that there wasn't much in the workbooks, but I think you are the type to feel better if you know a little learning at home is being done. So start out small. Set yourself the goal of 10 minutes of focusing on writing or reading a day. Keep it varied - look for ideas on BBC Bitesize KS1 and other learning websites and keep it fun. If it's a game or good time with Mum/ Dad the learning goes so much easier.

Well, I think the fact that he wouldn't have started school in some countries is quite important. There is a reason they don't start school until 6 or so, and that's because research has shown that the brain takes until this age to develop and then can cope better with reading and writing.

It could be argued that the UK is doing children no favours in starting to teach them to read and write at age 4 or even 5. It's miserable to struggle with skills, and young children may pick up that they are not doing so well as their (older often) peers, whereas when you are ready- ie brain fully developed for this stage you can go quite fast. My sister has experienced this with her son in Sweden where her 7 year old only started phonics and reading at the beginning of one term to progress to chapter books, independent reading by the end of the term, or certainly the following term. There is higher expectations of the children due to starting later rather than the UK "playing at it" system that seems to exist in reception and year 1.

If I was you, although it will be tricky within our school system, I would try to relax and not worry about the reading and writing at all. Encourage your son in the things he is interested in, playing with water etc is fine!!

I really believe that the focus at this stage should be on reading not writing. It may help to take him to a bookshop/library and let him choose which books he would like to read (school books are still important as well as they are a way of systematically covering all the sounds).

In most schools there is at least setting in ability groups, if not streaming. In our school the material offered to the pupils differs per ability group. Therefore, in practice it is really difficult to move from a bottom group to a higher group say after 1-2 years, the gap has just become too great. Clearly, your school may be different, you would have to find out whether they use setting and how they do this. Normally teachers will be inclined to say that children can move up, but ask for how many kids ACTUALLY move one or two levels up. I doubt that there are many, if any.

I don't want to worry you, but I think that it is important to keep a finger on the pulse and don't believe in sudden miracles.

Thanks Pastsellbydate for some good advice to try and get the writing going. I'm hoping he's going to be interested in writing his own santa list this year! Will try a little bit each day.

Tgger, I feel the same after seeing my boy really not getting the whole school thing. It's great that he was allowed to play and not worry about reading or writing but he is now comparing himself to his friends and he knows he can't do alot of the work they're doing which is not helping his self esteem. On the other hand I know there are alot of children who are ready at a young age and thrive entering school at 4. It's a shame we don't really have a choice as our education system seems to be a 'one size fits all' approach.

Dikkertjedap, I ordered him a couple of the Star Wars readers (Recommended from another thread on mn) and we'll be going to the library this week. I've also ordered the 'Write from the Start' program (Also rec from another mn thread!) and will take it slowly. I'm not really bothered about ability tables at this stage, as long as he learns to read and write and has the confidence to have a go at something I'll be more than happy with that!

Meant to add that whilst my ds is struggling with reading and writing he is always the one in our house who comes up with brilliant solutions if there is any problem and he is much more observant and aware of what's going on in the world. He recently said to me 'Mummy, I'm in year 1 now, so reception was zero, nursery was minus 1 and play school was minus 2'. I said yes I suppose so where did you hear that and he replies 'nowhere I just know it'.

On paper my dd is the bright little star - teachers gushing, level 3's in all subjects and getting head teacher awards whereas my ds is below average and struggling. I just know he has so much going on it just may take a while to get it out!

Children may not start school until later in most European countries but most attend some form of pre school setting and many learn to read and write before school. Once they do start school education is much more "formal" (as in sitting down and drill) than in UK schools and teachers envy our gentle introduction.

They certainly don't learn to read and write before school in Sweden, and then their literacy rates are very good at 11.

Do they not? They may not start formal instruction but many have been taught to read and write before they start school at age seven.
UNESCO statistics puts UK and Swedish literacy levels as equal

Dikkertejap - I agree, our school works that way. There may be one movement between groups per term but high, middle and low groupings are entrenched by Y3 and most teachers come to see pupils as approximately high, middle or low ability by junior school. We set for maths in Y3 and these groups don't tend to change very much (possibly one movement per term and then only one set up or down) the tracking system also comes into play. Those children at the top are seen as generally quicker/more able than those in the middle or bottom. Those children that are predicted a low level 4 at 11 spend longer on various methods in maths than others etc. It's very unusual that a bottom set chid will catch those at the top for example as you note. I find most parents are unconcerned and assume either that their child is academic or they're not and trust the teacher's/school's judgement.

Going off topic a little I love the idea of truly fluid systems that teachers on here have described where pupils are seen as having changeable strengths and weaknesses within subjects and are treated accordingly. So my advice OP would be to find out how things work in your school and reinforce weaknesses at home in a positive and fun way if appropriate. Your son is still very young as others have said and he sounds fine to me.

There was an interesting article in the Times a year ago from the author Simon Van Booy. Here is a bit of it for those interested.
Testing children on literacy at 6 is wrong, says an author, who won?t be teaching his daughter to read or write early

Sometimes at book signings, readers will ask if my daughter can write her name yet. This question is usually awkward, because she can?t write her name, and she can?t read ? despite being 6 years old and living in a house that groans under the weight of books. But the level of my daughter?s literacy is not why this question is difficult. The problem is how strange it must seem when I admit, as an author, that I don?t think it?s a good idea to encourage children to read and write until they?re ready, which turns out to be much later than we all thought.

The approach to learning that I favour is more concerned with how children actually learn, based on hard evidence, as opposed to ideas as to how children ought to learn.

Often a parent?s pride or disappointment for what a child has or has not achieved in the classroom reveals more about a parent?s ego than a child?s overall development.

A study by the Cambridge Primary Review confirms that a formal curriculum for children under 6 has no benefit and may even be detrimental to development. And in Finland, which has one of the highest literacy rates in the world, children don?t even start compulsory schooling until the age of 7.

He goes on to talk about the importance of the oral tradition of story-telling, play etc. Does make you wonder if we'd be better off waiting at least until year one or even year two before starting our kids off on reading and writing.

ranking country literacy rate

21 Antigua and Barbuda 99.0 [q]
22 20 Australia 99.0 [d]
23 20 Austria 99.0 [d]
24 20 Belgium 99.0 [d]
25 20 Canada 99.0 [d]
26 20 Czech Republic 99.0 [d]
27 20 North Korea 99.0 [d]
28 20 Denmark 99.0 [d]
29 20 Finland 99.0 [d]
30 20 France 99.0 [d]
31 20 Germany 99.0 [d]
32 20 Guyana 99.0 [j]
33 20 Iceland 99.0 [d]
34 20 Ireland 99.0 [d]
35 20 Japan 99.0 [d]
36 20 South Korea 99.0 [d]
37 20 Luxembourg 99.0 [d]
38 20 Netherlands 99.0 [d]
39 20 New Zealand 99.0 [d]
40 20 Norway 99.0 [d]
41 20 Slovakia 99.0 [d]
42 20 Sweden 99.0 [d]
43 20 Switzerland 99.0 [d]
44 20 United Kingdom 99.0 [d]
45 20 United States See also: Literacy in the United States 99.0 [d]

I'm sure if we left 'formal schooling' until 7 then the most vulnerable kids would be left even further behind than they are now.

ie the kids who (it turns out) have SEN, or EAL, or live in poverty. By addressing there problems at 4 and 5 we have a chance of 'closing the gap'

I hate to think how badly some of these kids (like my DD) would do if they had no 'formal schooling' until 7.

I consider myself very lucky that she started failing at 4. :(

even using the PISA rankings Finland has fallen behind Aisan countries

It's OK Indigo Finland leaves SEN children off their data

I used to work in Asia where school largely begins at 7. Play based kindergartens were common but children would usually know their letter sounds and most could read and write as well as child at the end of reception in the UK if not better when they started primary school.

I read a study recently about Finland recently which suggested that television watching was very limited amongst the young and many were much more independent than their peers at 6 or 7 in the UK. Many would have more responsibility young and so would have a greater problem solving ability (far more common for children to get involved with helping to repair a car engine, build a house or attach a plug & even rewire a house than in the UK apparently).

The same study also said that in Finland it wouldn't be uncommon for a 8 year old to be home alone. Children also rose and went to bed earlier than those in UK. Apparently school was also taken more seriously than in the UK when children started. In short society is very different and I am not sure we can really draw comparisons.

Very interesting Tgger, I would say that Simon Van Booy is probably correct about parents ego but I think also our NC tracking system can lead to anxiety especially in grammar areas. In an ideal world we'd all be much more relaxed but it's an increasingly competitive world out there too. If you have the resources for a safety net for your child should it all go pear shaped then that might make you more laid back about education also. Did he home school?

I'm actually undecided about what is best, I thought I'd just cite that article as it matches what my sister has told me about the Swedish system re not starting until later.
My niece is growing up in Sweden. She is Year 1 age and still in their "Dagis (not sure spelling!", which is equivalent of our pre-school. She is a very bright and articulate 5 year old. Very independent. Plays outside 2 hours every morning- that's what they do over there. No reading, no writing.
The argument that children with special needs would struggle more if it was left until 6 does not really hold. It is probably these children who would benefit most if it was left a year or two later as their brains would have had a chance to catch up a little.
I do not teach reading, but do teach music which includes reading notes and when parents ask me what the best age to teach a child the piano for example is I can give quite a concrete answer, example based on experience. This is that the children who started at 6 or 7 in Year 2 progress much faster than those who start at 5 in Year 1. That it takes the Year 2 children one term to catch up with those who started in Year 1, so unless your child is very precocious and demanding to play then it's best to wait until at least year 2, and you probably won't lose anything by waiting until later either. Although music reading cannot be compared like to like with reading, it has enough similarities to make me wonder whether starting later with reading for some children is the kindest and most productive thing to do.

The argument that children with special needs would struggle more if it was left until 6 does not really hold. It is probably these children who would benefit most if it was left a year or two later as their brains would have had a chance to catch up a little - eh? How do you figure that out?

Do SEN disappear by 6? No. By defn they don't.

Most kids with SEN at 6 will be further behind their peers then they were at 4. A lot further behind.

If they've 'caught up' by 6 (without intervention), then at 4 they didn't have SEN.

There's an awful lot of interventions which are more effective if they're done at 4, then if they're done at 7.

Now there's no reason why a pre-school / nursery / kindergarten whatever you want to call it can't do them rather than a school - but if a pre school is compulsory, and able to detect what interventions are needed, and implement them, the it's very, very similar to reception......

I'd also like to say a school which doesn't move children much between groups after year 3 is not being very fair. I have at least one child who didn't move above set 3 for Maths at Primary and is now expected to get A/A* at GCSE. Lots of children develop later, especially if they also have an SEN.