Year 1 concerns

[gloriahoneybum]

We had ds's parent evening and I told his teacher I was concerned about his reading and writing. She said his reading was slightly below that for his age - He's 5, summer born and reading ginn level 2 but that in a recent assessment he was showing as a 1c which is the expected level at this stage. She agreed his writing is below the expected level but that we should not be concerned at this stage. He has only really just starting to attempt any writing but he has been able to write his name since last year back in reception (It's an easy one!!). She said he knows 30 of the 44 phonics sounds and about 20 hfw. Is this ok at this stage? I was quite sad looking through his workbooks as there seems to be very little in them but again she didn't think this was something to worry about. I think part of my problem is his sister is in y2 and at the other end of the scale and I cant help but compare to what she was doing this time last year. I didn't mention this to the Teacher as I know the golden rule is never to compare children but I can't help myself.

Do we just sit back and chill and let things hopefully progress? How long should we wait? His behaviour is acceptable but not brilliant (Teacher's words!) and he does have impulsive tendencies at times where he knows he shouldn't be talking or being silly but does it anyway. She said he responds well to praise and he does have some self esteem issues. Often saying he can't do something before he even tries. He is happy doing his homework - he gets 10 spellings and will write out the words but I cannot see how he could write them out again say 5 days later without any help. Again she didn't bring this up as a problem. I was slightly reassured after meeing the teacher but still have nagging doubts. She gave some good ideas for low key help at home where he's not aware he's even learning and I've read lots of interesting stuff on here but any more advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for waffling on

That's interesting, on the interventions. Are they to do with social behaviour and/or general language development rather than actually learning to read and write? I was referring specifically to learning to read and write- apologies if we have been talking cross purposes.

At 4 I would argue that it's unnecessary and indeed unwise to determine which children are finding it harder to learn to read, as they may simply not have reached the stage in development where they are ready. I would liken this perhaps to an anxious parent referring say a 12 month old to a paedetrician if they have not started walking. We would all recognize this as foolish, as children start to walk at anything up to 2, or certainly 18-20 months as a norm, but perhaps we are not so well informed about brain development in regard to reading and writing skills. Thus we become over anxious if our 4 or 5 year old seems to struggle when actually they are just not ready and it is unkind to expect them to.

I am visiting my sister soon and will ask her how 4 and 5 year olds with particular needs are treated within the Dagis, or if there are problems with children not having had "interventions" earlier.

Tgger I think you will find there is a strong correlation between social development and communication and language with learning to read and write.
Sweden actually impliments early intervention in pre school and pre school classes before compulsory schooling begins but they do not include SEN children in their literacy data.

Daghem - day nursery
förskola - pre school
Förskoleklass - pre school class

Ah, there you go then, you can have early intervention without teaching 4 year olds to read and write.

By the way, I am not trying to hold Sweden up as a "this is the way to do it". I can see that it might come across this way. I am just interested in the different approach, and when I see posts referring to 4 and 5 year olds struggling with reading/writing, what I know of their system always springs to mind and I feel a bit sorry for some of our (UK) kids. Surely it in everyone's best interests to keep an open mind in regard to young children and what is best for them, rather than put the blinkers on and say "we do this and this is best".

There should be space for consideration of what the latest research in child development is pointing at. A teacher friend who advises on these things told me that the latest thinking in UK is that some of the EYFS ways of doing things should be carried on into Year 1 and even Year 2 because up until this age learning through play is still the best and most effective way for the children.

The Swedish pre school curriculum includes goals for reading writing and maths

Interesting. That was/is not my sister's kids' experience. I'll quiz them again when I see them!!

They are certainly very much more relaxed than us in regard to 4 and 5 year olds though, no reading books etc etc. Here is something I found just to give others who have no knowledge of the swedish system a flavour.

What's the Hurry?

The Swedish philosophy behind a later start is to give children a longer period of self-generated learning. Educators here believe that this period encourages natural curiosity without requirements and tests. Rather than sitting all of the children down together to learn the alphabet or counting, teachers respond when a child expresses interest. This approach allows children to develop in different areas at their own pace and lets them get a better sense of who they are before they're judged in relation to others. It also gives children more opportunity to learn from each other, something not to be underestimated.

Here's the reference www.edutopia.org/global-education-sweden-preschool

Status and pedagogical task of preschool to be strengthened
www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/17/21/24/dd5b1a52.pdf

The curriculum?s goals for children?s language and communicative development, as well as for their mathematical development, have been clarified and extended. The goals for natural sciences and technology
have also become clearer and increased in number. The goals specify a direction for the pedagogical activities of preschool.

Children in need of special support
Children who require special support for their development because of physical, psychological or other reasons are to be given the support demanded by their particular needs. If information from preschool
staff, or other sources, suggests that a child is in need of special support, the new Education Act also regulates that the preschool head must ensure that the child be given such support.

Interesting, but that doesn't mean they are going to start bringing reading books home.

If the education system in Britain is so bloody good, then why do 20% of children leave primary school without the level required to cope with the demands of secondary education? Obviously starting at 4 doesn't help that 20% of children.

I would argue that Sweden has lower levels of illiteracy than we do in Britain. But hey, let's just bury our heads in the sand shall we?

Magdalene my son was one of those who left primary school "without the levels to cope with secondary school" he coped just fine. It was lucky he didn't scrape the few marks necessary "to be able to cope..." because he would have received no help then in secondary. He is dong fine at secondary school, and aiming for University, but he still struggles with English, pretty good at MAths and Science though.
Those levels are the levels in SATs which are not necessarily suitable for all pupils to be reaching at 11. The level 4 was initially set as the level "the average 11 year old" should be achieving at the end of year 6. That would mean 50% of the population at that level or above, and 50% below. The fact that in the UK only 20% of the population are below average, means that a miracle has happened or the government has fiddled with the data.
Education in the UK isn't the best possible, but its not all bad.

As for how you can have early intervention without teaching children to read and write, well I saw a program on what they do in Hungary; where they play games to teach pre-reading skills. So the children can hear that words are made up of sounds, and how those sounds can be put together to make words.

The literacy statistics given by Mrz are about children going to school. They assume that all those who go to school learn to read and write, but the Moser report of 1999 made it clear that 22% of British adults are functionally illiterate.

^in Finland, which has one of the highest literacy rates in the world, children don?t even start compulsory schooling until the age of 7.

He goes on to talk about the importance of the oral tradition of story-telling, play etc. Does make you wonder if we'd be better off waiting at least until year one or even year two before starting our kids off on reading and writing.^

Finnish has Europe's simplest spelling system which makes learning to read and write exceptionally easy (Seymour et al British J of Psych 2003).
The Rose review of 2006 concluded that it was advisable for our children to start literacy learning as soon as possible after their 4th birthday - because they had to cover ground which many of their counterparts in other countries did not have to cover because their writing systems were much simpler.

But my advice to Gloria is:
Chill and do what the teacher has recommended.
Give that a try for at least a while longer. Children mature and become reading-ready and writing-ready at very different rates. Pushing them faster than they can go is rarely a good idea.

Read some of my blogs if u want to understand English literacy learning a bit more.
Masha Bell

Tgger - interventions for 4 year olds to help them with reading and writing would include

• fine motor skills
• gross motor skills
• speech
• Auditory Processing
• Visual perception
• memory

Not to mention, just learning to speak English :)

magdalene - the 20% figure is very, very misleading. For starters it's talking about children who are not able to demonstrate in a test sophisticated reading and writing skills.

The majority of those 20% can read and write fairly well. For example could read 'The Sun' perfectly fine, but struggled to 'interpret the authors intentions' when dissecting a hard article in the Times.

The 20% also include kids:

• with severe special needs. Who may be brain damaged, or have other severe needs meaning it's unreasonable to expect them to ever learn to read

• kids with more mild special needs which has impacted on their ability to learn at school

• kids who hardly ever attend school (for example some traveller children)

• kids who move schools every 6 months (for example some army children)

• kids who are abused

• kids who live in overcrowded and unsuitable housing - and have no chance of doing any homework - or even getting enough sleep

• kids who are so poor or neglected that they're not fed properly

• kids who are carers - who come home from school and look after their parents or younger siblings full time

• kids who have not been in the country very long and who don't speak English brilliantly yet ( first children learn speaking, than reading, and then writing)

• kids whose parents don't value education and tell them school's a waste of time

• kids whose parents can't speak English and can't help them at home

• kids with very low IQs

etc, etc.

How many 11 year olds in Sweden can read and understand (to a sophisticated level) the equivalent of the Times?

"Children mature and become reading-ready and writing-ready at very different rates. Pushing them faster than they can go is rarely a good idea."

I think this is exactly what I am trying to say. I suggest that the British system doesn't necessarily support this which I think is a shame or perhaps something stronger than a shame- a travesty? An education system should support children in correlation to their development and I think between the ages of say 4 and 6 they are still young children who, yes if they need help with speaking and motor skills etc then yes give them that, in the way you give non speaking 2/3 year olds speech therapy. Please no pressure or comparison at this age though if it's in the normal range.

Earlier is not always better.

And yes, Indigobell, a lot of the children struggling are struggling due to their backgrounds/home situations. These need tackling really before anything else. In the 21st century it seems very sad that this is very much still a bug bear in our society and it's not an easy one for government to solve. Eg, 3 year olds living in a tower block in close proximity to a park who had never been taken there. A lot of development in the early years, 0-3 or 0-5 is down to what happens at home and this is hard to address. Interventions such as sure start and giving 3 and 4 year olds nursery hours have not helped as much as was hoped.

I have not read alll the messages here but I wanted to respond to your post Gloria as it rang so many bells with me.

I have a summer born son now in year 3 and when he was in year 1 he also struggled to fill his work books and was on a relatively low reading level. His teachers advised on helping him with reading and writing as yours has and we continued as we always had with a book every night and encouraging him to write or draw but pushing him in anyway ended in tears so I reigned in my anxiety and concentrated on letting him fiind his way with my subtle (well I did my best) encouragement.

He started in year 2 still behind his classmates but by the middle of the school year he was catching up rapidly and filling his books with neatly written stories and his reading levels by the end of the year wer exactly where they should be.

His most recent parents evening was a joy and it his emotional maturity that has shone through in the last year - he needed to grow up to catch up and as the children get older the obvious age gap between summer and autumn born children closes. So please relax and keep the pressure off just be reassuring, give lots of praise and let time pass.

Tgger - we are probably totally in agreement - but what makes you think the English school system pushes reading and writing faster than children can go?

How do you know teachers aren't very sensitive to what kids can do and provide them the opportunity to work at exactly that level?

MN gives you a very skewed picture of what happens in the classroom.

Does it sound like MRZ pushes her children beyond what they are capable of? (Although she does generally get her whole class reading by the end of reception)

Just because mums on MN compare which colour book their child is reading does not mean that this is either normal practice, or a failing with the school system.

Teachers (in the state system) will never ever tell parents how children are doing in comparison to the rest of the class. So really I don't think it's fair to say that the English system employs pressure or comparison.

A few very bad schools place pressure on kids in Y2. But those schools are very bad. Surely there are bad schools, heads and teachers in every country?

Certainly my DD is doing incredibly badly academically. Her reading and writing has not progressed at all as it should have. But she has never been placed under pressure. She's happy and confident. She thinks she's clever. And that's while going to 2 different schools - one which was dreadful for kids with SEN.

But we have had 3 more years of interventions than she would have had if she'd been at home till she was 7.

Honestly, in my particular case, if DD had started schooling at 7 instead of 4 she would have been a lot worse off.

And of course there are going to be people who say the opposite.

But the really, really great thing about the UK school system - is that it's optional. If you don't want your child to go to school at 4 - they don't have to. There is nothing stopping you from keeping them home till 7 or any other age.

magdalene perhaps you want to argue literacy levels with UNESCO figures

Sweden

UK

Er - and what's your point Mrz?

Indigobell - it's interesting that so many excuses are made except the education system itself! There are success stories - Sir Michael Wilshaw's school in Hackney where children are poor etc etc - 85% of the students there score 5 GCSEs including maths and English (better than some private schools and leafy suburban schools) so it is possible to teach children with all the problems you describe. Perhaps if Britain didn't make so much of its class system all the time...

magdalene Tue 25-Oct-11 22:08:49

I would argue that Sweden has lower levels of illiteracy than we do in Britain.

Simply pointing out statistics from the United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation don't support your argument

I'm not making excuses.

On a personal level I'm fighting tooth and nail (as a gov and as a parent) to get my school to raise attainment. (The fight I have on my hands to get school to teach DD to read and write is incredible.)

There are bad schools, Heads and teachers out there. And you are quite right to criticise them.

But they are not indicative of 'the system'. Like you said Mossbourne academy (and others) do very well by most of it's students.

On a personal level I'm incredibly impressed with the education my 3 are receiving. It is so individualised. And so focussed on all kids achieving.

From what I heard the Swedish system is also impressive.

But to complain about the English system because only 80% of kids leave Y6 on a level 4 for English is unfair.

Sure the school system could be better. Couldn't everything?

All I can recommend is becoming a school gov at your local schools (if you're not already) and challenge them to raise attainment that way.......

I have very limited experience of schools in UK I agree, but from posts on MN and anxiety of friends with 5 year olds in particular- year 1 seems to be where the anxiety mostly starts, my personal conclusion from what I have seen is that schools are trying too much too soon for SOME children and this is unwise. One size does not fit all.

I do feel lucky that my children are born in October and November and also that they seem to be wired for reading and writing (as opposed to climbing and cycling). My eldest is only reception age and probably very ready for reading and writing. Some of his summer born peers may well not be. Like the OP here many parents with said children start to feel that their children are "weak" in these areas, they are "getting behind", they need to read a book a night (at 5?!), when really all they need as shown by bigmouthstrikesagainsomehow is time. Ah, the gift of time. Then they will be fine.

It seems a shame if children start to feel they are failing, or "not good" at these skills. That their parents are given bad advice re upping the practising of these skills, when the best advice may well be to forget it for 6 months.

I think it is very difficult to judge if you haven't experienced the systems. Many people cite the fact that children start school at a younger age in the UK as bad until they actually see it in practice.

I did my MA with a teacher from Greece and another from Poland whose first reaction was how terrible children go to school so young ... they couldn't believe how different the reality was from their experience of starting school. Lots and lots of play and just being children.
www.abcdoes.typepad.com/abc-does-a-blog/page/2/

Thank you so much Bigmouthstrikesagain for your post. That is fantastic progress and you must be so proud of your son. I can really relate to your comment 'needed to grow up to catch up'. That is my son all over!

Good to read some interesting views on here. I'm not experienced or qualified enough to comment on the differing systems but appreciate the posts.

Most teachers would agree that age 4 is too young to start school (even in the most outstanding early years settings). At this age (year 1) it is all about maturity as there is such a wide variation of ages. When my DD started school there were children nearer 5 which really makes a difference at this age.

My DD was on the same reading level as your son gloriahoneybum in year 1 and was on chapter books by the end of the year. Most importantly she understands what she's reading and enjoys it!

Don't be too hard on yourself for comparing your children - we all do it in some way or another.

Just keep talking to the teacher and ask her how you can help your son at home. It sounds like it's about confidence too and if you give him a boost at home it'll help him in the classroom. Why can't teachers communicate more with parents? Why do they leave it all until parents' evening?