If your Y1 child is at a private school, what book band are they on?

[applypie]

curious to see how far privately educated childred are actually ahead already after only a year of school.

MigratingCoconuts if you want to accuse me of being a troll, have the balls to say it directly.

I just wanted to know whether privately educated children are ahead already. There are very few yardsticks at this age, and reading progress is as good as any. There were no snidey comments about the class divide, no snobbish remarks about state or private schools. Just a question.

Woa!! back up there, that's not what I meant at all! i am really sorry you read it as such!! Blimey, touchy... If I though you were a troll for one second i would have researched your name for previous thread titles, reported you to MNHQ and taken no further part in this thread...as i usually do with suspect trolls.

All I meant was, its clear to me if you start a thread with the op you did, it was bound to lead to a state/private scrum, bound to...and you must have known that. I've only been around here for a few years but this op had red-flag-to-a-bull written all over it.

If you wanted something more than that, you do need something more than the bare question. Context, reasons for wanting to know. Certainly not snobbery or references to class divide.

have a and calm right down

to you too.

Why I want to know? I have three children. I can't afford to educate them all privately. I live in the catchment of a comprehensive which doesn't even bother to offer many academic options at GCSE. 44% get 5 good GCSEs (but this figure includes as many weasly options as possible, such as the 4-GCSE worth IT course) and 1% get the Ebacc. 7% do a foreign language to GCSE.

Yes, yes, I know there will be a bunch of well meaning people here to say you can't judge by academic results, and you've got to send your child to a school that will suit them and nurture them, but quite frankly, most children leaving this school will not be in the best place to have a wide range of options for the future. Nearby, there are grammar schools. Parents who can afford it, and those who can barely afford it, send their children to independent schools at primary age in the hope that they don't have to send them to the local secondary and can get a grammar school education instead.

I know that at the state school my children attend, they do not have the same opportunities as the children at the nearest independent school. They do get to mix with a wider slice of society, but I do wonder how thankful they will be for this if I have to send them to the secondary where doors are closing for them the moment they step through the door.

I want to know what I would get if I was paying for their education and how much I'm stymieing their chances by not doing so. (Yes, yes, book bands isn't the best indicator but there's not a lot else until sats which most private school kids don't do.)

That's a better op...although, it would still have ended in a bun fight, knowing MN

I do feel for your situation and I'm lucky in that I live near (and teach at) our local excellent state school. In your situation, I am not sure what i would do.

Yes, yes, book bands isn't the best indicator but there's not a lot else until sats which most private school kids don't do

And this is the basic problem because so much is mixed up with developmental stage that how can you unpick progress? Even the SATs are troublesome as indicators and have their problems. Added to the fact that prep schools and state schools are going to be bigging themselves up to attract the parents.

I think the only real way of knowing if a school will work for your children is to go round them and get a feel for the way they work and what they can offer.

Thanks for filling in the picture a bit and good luck with your kids...

Hi applypie,
is their only one comprehensive in your catchment?

I do understand you wanting to know if 'you will get your moneys worth' if forking out for private education. Fair enough question!
Have you visited this comprehensive and talked to the Head? Is the ofsted very bleak? How long is it until your children start secondary? Is it an improving school?
Only you know your local options.
This school business can be worrying. Drink that wine!

Reading level under the age of 8 is a really really BAD indicator of future academic achievement IME

early reading is just it all falling into place for a child - whereas another kid will be running fast or jumping and another will be getting another skill

parents IMO get too hung up on reading in KS1

it is no indicator

"Even the lack of empathy for 'disruptive pupils' in lessons, if we could live in their shoes for a a few months, I'm sure it would be abundantly clear why they are acting out in class. These children need understanding, these complex problems are everyone's, and impact on everyone, including those who are attempting to live in a private ark."

Sorry, this is really naive. You clearly don't teach a class with 30 children with a handful unruly, disrespectful, lying, spiteful and aggressive kids. If you did, you would understand that there is no time to try to 'understand the complex issues of these children' because you are also expected to teach the other 25. The parents of the other 25 would not be so pleased if they were told, sorry I am too busy trying to understand little John who has such a difficult life with such complex problems so he needs my full attention because otherwise he pulls all the books of the shelves, rips the timetable to shreds, breaks all the pencils, pokes a few children if given a chance, empties all the water bottles in the box with book bags or over the coats if able to sneak off ... Get real, I don't come across teachers in the private sector with similar experiences. Unfortunately, little John's parents aren't interested in addressing any issues. Or little Freya, who is still having lots of accidents, because her parents are so so busy that they think that school should train her to go to the toilet, because they can't fit it in their busy schedule. Or little Henry who simply says that he is not going to listen to anyone and daddy says that that is fine. This is daily reality for many teachers. I appreciate that parents are not aware of this, because teachers don't like to be too frank about what really happens in the classroom because they don't want to worry the parents of the other 25 kids.

I do teach a class of 30 children and I would suggest you seem to be confusing empathy with acceptance. I can understand why some children act as they do and work with them but I do not have to accept their behaviour in the classroom where they follow the same rules as everyone else.

dikkertjedap - I really hope you aren't a teacher.

And if you are a teacher, I really hope you're in the private sector - well away from my kids.

dikkerjedap.....have you been watching too much Waterloo road by any chance?

Sure, blame the teacher for the behaviour of disruptive kids and then be surprised that whole classes may end up under performing because of low level disruption.

I am hopelessly naive to think that people should feel empathy for disadvantaged children whose own parents do not support them properly. I am hopelessly naive to think that a state education system could work in the absence of the private sector and grammar schools, even though it is working here and now in my own town. I am hopelessly naive to wish that people would get outraged that education is a post code lottery for most children in this country, instead of paying their way out of the problem. I am hopelessly naive to think that children from all backgrounds and all abilities mixing together could make for a more cohesive society. I am hopelessly naive and proud of it.

Better than being cynical and hard hearted, any day.

my empathy for disadvantaged children doesn't extend to wanting to send my child to a school where he has a less than 50-50 chance of emerging with the most basic of qualifications. My love for my neighbour does not mean I jump with glee at the chance of sending my child to a school where he will not be able to study academic subjects to GCSE, because he'll be improved by being exposed to teenagers with deprived backgrounds, many of whom carry knives. Although I wish that society was better at preventing children from getting to this stage, it doesn't make me want to use up my own children's childhood so that they can be immersed in a shared experience of contempt for authority and education.

I love my children and want them to have opportunities. If they decide that they don't want to follow an academic route: fine. But to shut the door on that at 11 is just wrong.

Been reading this and soooo interesting.... I will throw my experiences into the pot..... OP, my dd at the start of Yr 1 at state school was on Stage 2 ORT, at the end of Yr1, Stage 7, my friends son at Private School was on Stage 4 at the start of Yr1 and Stage 7 at the end.

So she has caught up with him, but only because she was put on a Reading Recovery programme, as she was behind what they thought she should be achieving (oldest in class, ariticulate with large vocab).

However, we have just moved her to private school, three weeks into Year 2!!! [watches as several MN posters keel over].

If you check my posts it has been a horrid decision and one that has not been taken likely. We now have a half hour journey, as opposed to 5 minutes, we have taken her from her friends and we have had to change our lifestyle to fit - not we are not really well off, my salary will now go to pay for school.

I have had two years experiences with her in the 'State' system, as well as being educated in it myself and I did OK, but it was definately failing my daughter. Apart from her reading, she was in class of 28 children a number of which were 'strong characters', as her teacher said. She was distracted and not doing really well, her writing. Her reception year was a disaster and the head actually apologised to me for what she called the class 'ramaging' at times. I am grateful for her honesty.

The difference in just a week at her new school is staggering and I am really really cross that we have to pay for something, I feel she should have a right to, I feel so sorry for those parents who haven't got the option as we have to do something about it.

In her state school she had one reading book a week (except when on the reading scheme), at her new school she was given her third one for this weekend.

At State, she was listened to read once a week by teacher, once by parent helper. At her new school her reading book is listed in her Home book, everyday by teacher and will read at least 5 pages. She has gone up a Level to Stage 8, as they felt she was capable of more. I had been telling her state school this, as she read a book with her Reading Recovery teacher in November, that she was given to read again this year.

At State school, she was never given any handwriting practice - I did do a lot myself as her letter formation was terrible, but when I eased off doing this, it deteriorated again. In her private school she has done 'handwriting' several times this week and came home with a handwriting book, to practice writing out a short poem.

At State school she did PE once a week, very often this was cancelled, because of children 'messing about' and them running out of time, one time the teacher asked them, once they had all changed, to change back again, because two boys had been silly, so PE cancelled.

At Private school she has done PE three times this week.

At State school she hated maths and basically said she never finished the page of sums. At Private school, she came home this week and told me all about how she suddently 'got' something, she was enthused.

I have also suddenly got a child who 'loves' school, is excited about what she has learnt, I have the date of the Fire of London, how many days is burned, how is started etc., etc. All different from coming home and when asked about school saying 'fine'.

She tells me it is calmer and easier to listen, that they don't have a Black Cloud if you are naughty, but have smiley faces instead, but 'no one is really naughty mummy, they are lovely'.

If this is the private system, then I will have it thankyou, I am lucky, I only have one child to worry to pay for, I don't know what I would do if I had two, because it just wouldn't be possible.

What I am however, is very very angry that the other 'lovely' children in her class cannot get what she is getting and have to stay in a class with those little 'b---ers', who are upsetting the rest.

Yes I have spoken to the Head, she is aware of the situation, but is restricted on what she can do,,but 'they will be a great class by the time they get to Year 6!'. Sorry, but that will be too late for my dd, who will have swtiched off completely by then.

This is why, some people choose to go Private, nothing to do with snobbery, money (well that helps), or being better than anyone else.

By the way, our state school was 'outstanding' in an ofstead!.

OK [flak jacket on and hiding behind sofa]

Oh I should add that there are 17 children in her class - boys and girls.

Dikker...why is the teacher being blamed for disruptive kids?? I am seriously confused here.

I empathise with those of my pupils who have horrendous home lives. They hopefully get the support they need - either within school or from outside agencies - to deal with these. However, the expectations of their behaviour in the classroom in terms of low level disruption etc is EXACTLY the same as for other children. They may need - and will get - the extra support they need to achieve this, and i work very hard to plan that support, but there is zero tolerance for behaviour that stops others from learning.

If a child - any child - breaks the agreed norms for behaviour in the classroom, the sanctions are clear and inevitable. Those children who find achieving acceptable behaviour hardest have care plans in place that allow for e.g. removal to an alternative space within the classroom, support from a TA when working in a group, an agreed 'quiet place' when they can't cope, silent 'fiddle toys' to help them concentrate, planned activities that start off short and gradually build up in length etc etc.

BUT any child - from whatever background - who did any of what you describe would be in the head's office faster than you could blink. And in fact the vast, vast majority of the 'disadvantaged' children in my school (and we have lots) very much like the fact that expectations are clear and consequences predictable, and very rapidly conform to the expectations of behaviour in school even if they continue to be nightmares at home!

The only non-toilet-trained child I have had to deal with was from a highly professional home, 2 very busy high-powered executive type parents, who just never wanted the inconvenience of toilet training to disrupt their high-octane weekends and wanted someone else to do it for them.

Ktk, It's really sad to hear your description of the school your daughter was at - because tbh what you have described as her current environment is, pretty much to the letter, what happens in my (very bog standard) state school. Only difference is that at the moment we're only doing PE twice a week, because one is swimming and occupies the entire afternoon... and (whispers it because I'm very lucky) we have 2 fewer children in the class than she does...

Yep, children who are seriously misbehaving are being sent to the Head Teacher, several times a day in some cases, every day of the week. Not making a lot of difference as they have zero respect for any form of authority and the parents will not back school.

teacher - you are very lucky, as are the families in your catchment.

Don't get me wrong, the teachers at her state school were lovely, the Year 1 teacher did a huge amount to get them to the stage they did, because basically their Reception was wasted - apparently they couldn't even sit and listen when they went into her class.

No doubt she worked hard with them, but it wasn't enough. I didn't expect such a huge difference in method, but my eyes are opened, and I can also see just how easy it would have been for her to give them a little more to work on than one maths worksheet (sparklebox), a week and one reading book.

Hey ho, dd is happy, we are happy because she is happy, we may be broke!!! but she will only get one shot at this and the environment obviously suits her too. I just hope it won't be too hard for her to 'catch up' at this stage.

Something I find interesting- people are all in favour of grammar schools because they think their children are bound to be among the 23% who get in, but against comprehensive schools because they don't think their child is going to be among the 47% who get a-c inn their GCSEs!

Ah seeker, didn't you know, those kids only get such average results because they have been left to muddle through in the state system. They'd all have PhDs by the age of sixteen, if only their parents could afford to go private.

To answer the OP ... I have 2 DC in a very bog-standard state school, and their cousin (in the school year between them) is in private school.

DN is one of the best readers in her class. However this is partly due to her mum teaching her to read before starting school and spending a lot of time on reading/phonics practice at home (beyond the usual reading to your child each day).

If she were in DD's Y1 class she would also be one of the best readers.

However ... she would not have made the top reading group in DS's Y1 class.

DD and DS were in Y1 in the same school, 2 years apart, but very different cohort of children.

Which I think sort of proves the point that others have made about it not being all about the school but an awful lot about the actual child (and support at home).

Mine were free readers in Y1

Wood - your sarcasm is noted and ignored!! I don't think my daughter will never be a 'high flyer', all I want and many other parents too, is to give her the best start in life I can. If that means going without, then so be it.

I don't think that sitting in a class with a number 'unruly' children (a TA's observation not mine), is conducive to a good basic education. I don't want her to 'muddle', I want her to enjoy her school years and get the best out of it she can for her future.

I have always been a great believer in the State system the reason she went there in the first place, after all, I am a product of it myself - but sadly times have changed in our schools, the State system is knocking her confidence, her ability to learn and enjoy her school years.

She may still be 'average' in her new school, but that is OK, at least she will be happy, safe and learn without distractions there.

If you had told me I would be advocating a private education on MN a year ago, I would have laughed, but really, I cannot believe the difference and it makes me very very angry that the difference is there in the first place.