Light hearted thread; who has been grilling their DC about which groups they are in?

[newtermnewname]

Be honest Mine have volunteered some information but I am resisting asking any more.

Stand up and be counted.

When DS was in Y1 the reading groups were unimaginatively numbered 1,2,3,4,5 (1 being the highest).

So imagine my horror when (good but not genius reader) DD announced she was in "reading group 5". "Discreet" questioning reveals that her sneaky teacher has mixed the groups about and the groups numbers are no longer sequentially linked to ability.

Yes, it's like the Spanish Inquestition here, an itchy itch that you can't help scratch.

Starts off all casual, then becomes increasingly shrill whilst I 'casually' attempt to establish the IQ pecking order.

I asked - turned out to be friendship groups tho'!

I am new to all this. I am very surprises that you all seem to know what ability your DC's classmates have. So if they are sitting next to x they are in the clever table?
How do you get this information about the other children? Genuinely curious.
Also, seems terrible the they group children like this, talk about boosting their confidence! Do all schools do this? And if they do, why are all the parents aware of the situation of children apart from their own?
Thanks, as I said geniunly interested , I come from abroad.

Timetoask, I am always surprised by the obsession with ability groups on here and even more surprised when young children seem to know if they're in the 'top' set or not. My yr2 daughter seems completely unaware/uninterested in who is 'top' of her class and how she compares to everyone, I think they are in sets but clearly the teachers are discreet about it, thank goodness. It's not really discussed amongst the parents either.

It's not discussed certainly by the parents I talk to at school (on the whole) and I would never, ever instigate a conversation along those lines. But ask any child who are the "clever" ones and who are the ones who get more help in class and I would bet that most children would tell you. They're not daft.

Bear in mind this is a light-hearted thread, BTW, it's not the Spanish Inquisition. .

It's not discussed amongst parents here but gradually it becomes clear. The children know just like you know the strengths and weaknesses of the people you work with.

Informal setting is a great thing, the fustration I experienced when DD was learning phonics was unbelievable - 'look it says C A T, it's cat, it's obvious' - I am not considering retraining as a teacher.

Being sat with people who just don't get something or worse when the rest of the group find it obvious and your struggling is awful and confidence is a major part of mastering any skill.

I now know that DD needs extra support for maths at home, just a few games, but her reading is great and just let her get on with the rest of it.

My DC has only been in school 10 days, so forgive my ignorance. Why wouldn't you want to know what group your DC was in? (seriously).

I have asked about the contents of his friend's packed lunches - is this wrong as well?

Had parents evening late last week and the teacher told me which groups DC would be in. I had no idea that school would do this, especially not so early.

IMHO Natural brightness is great but persistence and determination are more important.

I get it now, so the teachers generally don't inform parents of the various groups and the DC who are part of them. If this is not discussed generally with parents, then how do you know that little Quentin is clever and barnaby is in the bottom group? Are you quizzing your children with the register list?
Has this always been the way things work in the uk? Maybe we should go back to having single desks for each child. I would HATE for my boy's confidence to be knocked just because of the children he has been grouped with.
If you want to know what group your child is with, then ask the teacher! surely quizzing your children is only making things worse, grrr.
does this happen from reception or only from year 1?

Why would I not want to know what group she's in? Because, as I said further up, I know from the homework she brings me that she's working at the right level, she tells me loads about what they are learning so is clearly engaged. She has plenty of friends so i've never thought to ask specifics like 'who sits next to you?'. Having spent time with some of the kids in her class I can guage myself who seems to be bright and would, frankly, find it really odd to ask dd to pass judgement herself on who is clever and who isn't in her class. She probably wouldn't know herself who is 'clever' but could tell me who colours in without going over the line, who runs the fastest, who has the longest hair etc etc

I don't particularly want to know either, because me knowing doesn't make the slightest bit of difference, all I want to know is that my DCs are working at the best level for them and the teachers are the only ones with the necessary information about every child in the class. I'm not saying they will always get it right but if there was a problem I would go in and speak to the teacher, but that still doesn't need me to know which actual levels the DCs are in, only that I think they might be too high or too low. As I said, I've never heard it being discussed in the playground either. Maybe our teachers are good at disguising the groupings!

The groups were on the wall last year and I was told which were which by the teacher and was quite happy with it all, but it did cause problems when parents discussed it. I think the teacher only told me as she knew I'd be happy with my sons progress ifswim. As my son started off the year middle of the class and progressed really well last year to top groups. My rule this year is not even to find out, therefore avoiding having to answer awkward questions from other parents or worry if my son does slip down group wise. I know he is working at the correct level though and only want to know if/ when this isn't the case. In my opinion knowing where children are in relation to eachother is pretty irrelevant and can cause stress for some parents. On the maths set front our teacher last year used shapes but purposely mixed them up, so top was rectangles, then triangles, then pentagons, then squares, then circles, so the grouping rules don't always apply ;) That confused us all :)

I asked my dd (9) who I knew would be in top or 2nd top groups - she's pleased with this so happy to ask; but not my ds (5) as I don't think he'd have a clue anyway, and I expect him to somewhere middling. He's one of the youngest in the class and so far not that bothered academically, though doing just fine. I'm almost sure that even if I could work it out from who was on his table (and at his age, the cleverest largely = the oldest) it wouldn't add much to my knowledge. I'll wait till the parents' evening in a few weeks for more useful personalised feedback.

I have asked who is in Ds' (6) group, answer: 'I won't tell you', then he talked of some animals... What I really want to know is whether is is where he is meant to be for his age and I find myself referring to websites and KS1 booklets. Where the others in his class are, I don't really care.

I want him to be in a middle group at least though because it must be demoralising to be near the bottom.

I will be trying to figure out where DS1 is soon. He has started a new school today. i knew exactly where he was in his old tiny school. Only 3 pupils in his year group and he was working with much older children in some cases. He is now in a huge school and not in a composite class, so will be interested to see where he fits.

Gabid But you care enough to look in other kid's book bags

I have realised over time that it doesnt matter about the groupings as long as they are working at their level. However, in reception, when you get no feedback, you know what your child is capable of but you dont know if it is good, bad, average, excellent, below average, etc., you do want to know where your child fits in in the normal classroom.

You dont know if your "excellent gifted reader" child is really gifted or if they are reading at the same level as everyone else and having benchmarks is a useful guide, even if it does bring you down a peg or two.

A lot of schools dont let children be aware, (or so it would seem on MN), but all the schools my kids have been at, the kids have known exactly what groupings they are on. Some work to change this, the majority are happy to be where they are at. There have been issues with the bottom group because they feel they stand out because they get extra attention and dont always like it.

We do like to know where our children fit in into the classroom and if you get feedback from the teacher that they are working below, at or above expectations then this does help, especially for those parents who support their children at home.

My DS (yr 3) came home and volunteered the information that "he is the only child in his class who's in top group Maths and bottom group for Literacy".

I actually don't know if they are set in ability groups but DS says they have tables (they stay at these for everything) and he has to move for Maths. TBF going by his YR 2 KS1 results it's probably true!

My year 3 is in a 3/4 classroom, and there are 3 other 3/4 classes; they stream for lit and numeracy, thus so far it has been nigh on impossible to establish the pecking order! I will keep trying though

Last year, in Y1 I was trying to find out how DS is doing in maths, as I suspected that he was a bit below average and wanted to support him at home. So I just went to ask his teacher, easy enough, so I thought!! She said, oh he is doing fine DS enjoyed xyz and loved building rocket ships, he is where he should be.

According to MN, KS1 websites and booklets he seemed a bit behind average, still working on adding 10, counting in 2s, 5s and adding and sustracting within 20 - we are slowly getting there though. But why aren't teachers honest about that information, how can I support him if I don't know where his strengths and weaknesses are?

still working on adding 10, counting in 2s, 5s and adding and sustracting within 20

I would say that was on track for Y1?!

Teachermum - But DS is in Y2 now, so I thought he should be able to do that now?

I've never quizzed DD about groups, partly because it doesn't matter but also because I arrange my own classroom by mixed ability groups, friendship, dates of birth, hobbies etc. etc. so that children aren't 'stuck' with the same partners for their entire primary school career. I know that information about which table DD sits at won't tell me a thing.

Oh, and I teach at her school so can ask her teachers if I feel the need to know.

And am the assessment co-ordinator so could look up her levels should I desire. I don't. She's happy and is making good progress; I can tell that from how she is at home, not from looking at my insane database!

SE13 - but you are privy to a LOT more info about her than the rest of us so it's surely easier to say 'oh I don't care what groups she's in'?