Teachers, do you notice "the summer slide" effect in September?

[lovecheese]

Following on from the doing stuff during the holidays thread I am interested to know from teachers if you have experienced this in children coming back to school after a long break? And in a particular subject? BTW DH is a Head and he thinks it definitely happens.

Any thoughts?

For a secondary perspective, and in my particular school, I would say that kids tend not to be the same level in September as is indicated by their data at the end of July. That's because, in July, we give them a 'best-fit' overall level for the whole year which is the best that they have done, including their optional test results.

Quite often, by October, the new teacher will only have assessed one or two AFs (which remain almost the same for secondary as for primary) and so there may well have been a bit of a slide as it's not the whole picture.

Year 7 frequently dip on paper when they move up to secondary as it's (a) quite traumatic and there are lots of other things going on for them and (b) whatever anyone says, secondary and primary teachers do not have any continuity with their levelling (at least, not in my school and its feeders anyway).

Younger children (under 6) IMO progress more at home. I have been amazed this summer how much happier our home is with no school for any of us! We are all so much happier......I am quite worried about September to be honest.

DS (7, going into Y3 ) has come on leaps and bounds over the summer. Nothing I've tried to do - he's led it. The last week or so he's desperate to start learning again.

Oh,tryingtobemarypooppins and Taffeta, I so agree with you both.

Our dc's handwriting in particular has come on a treat. I hate the way that some teachers think that all learning happens in school

Feralgirl, I am in total agreement about the lack of continuity in levels between primary and secondary. The levels the children arrive with are often overly generous and because their predicted GCSE grades are based on them it just creates so much more stress for pupils and teachers.

In the schools I've taught in I don't think the pupils have gone backwards after the summer but they do find it harder to get down to work and have to be reminded of a fair few things.

Far more important than any backsliding is the fact that the six week break is really valuable for the children - they get a chance to be themselves, rest and even whisper it get a bit bored.

The best (and possibly only people) to give you a difinitive answer would be a teacher who teaches the same children for more than one year in a row.

I can't tell whether my new class have dipped due to the hols as I don't fully know their standards yet.

Assessment still remains relatively subjective and different teachers have different interpretations of levels. Assessing from particular pieces of work can even be hit and miss.

What I can say, however, is that in September there are many children who -even in the relatively affluent area I teach in - will admit that they haven't picked up a book or a pen or pencil in the full 6+ weeks. That must have an impact of some sorts.

I think my two kids learn loads in the holidays, from all the different (learning) experiences they have - Aren't most experiences an opportunity for learning ?
I think their learning environment is at least as good during the long summer holidays as it is at any other time, including at school.
Though somewhat biased as their proud mother I'd say I'm fairly well qualified to judge as I'm a qualified teacher and have also worked in my son's school, in his year group, as a TA.
I reckon they come on leaps and bounds over the summer, and what we do with them is a good partnership with experiences their teachers can give them in the school environment.
In the last few days we've visited the National Gallery including seeing the amazing responses of children from many schools to the "Take One Picture" project.
We've also visited Winston Churchill's home at Chartwell, including a tour of his studio, and my two artistic DC's have had one to one tuition with their Grandpa (an architect and painter) on drawing and painting in a variety of mediums, such as water-colour and acrylics.
Earlier in the summer they spent time in Norfolk with their father, a naturalist, birdwatching along the Norfolk coast and rock-pooling at West Runton.
Next week we're going to the Peak District for a walking holiday, staying in a hostel with a large group of like-minded friends with children of a variety of ages. We've had a day in Cambridge, punting along the river, and taking part in an interesting research project, where DD had her brain-waves measured ! We spent a week camping in Canterbury with our Quaker community, and the children -working in groups with children their own age- explored our theme of living sustainably through a variety of activities.
One day was spent in the woods making shelters and learning about fire-making - My DS's favourite day of the summer.
They spent the first week with friends at a local "summer camp" where a variety of activities, including many physical games, were on offer.
In between all these things we've had some more relaxing days catching up with friends at the park etc.
I think we have had a particularly good summer this year, and I know I've got a bit carried away telling you everything we've been up to - but I feel strongly that children don't just learn at school, and don't all turn into cabbages during the holidays !
I hope you've all had a good summer too - Anyone reading who works with children - You deserve a good break - Enjoy the last week or so

My teacher friend says that by October half term she expects her pupils to be working at the level they were at the end of the previous term. She says the 6 weeks back usually just counteract the 6 weeks off!

She did however say if any child is below the level they were given sometimes it's not the child has 'lost' any skills but usually the teacher before marked them 'up' from what she would iyswim? EG a teacher may say a child is 2B but in actual fact my frieed may have given the same child a 2C so if the child is a 2C it may be they are where they were still.

Last year my DS remained static in science for that 1/2 term, went up sublevel in Maths and down one in Lit. Make of that what you will!!!

Not a teacher, but I've noticed with my own 4 kids when they were little they were actually ahead of where they'd been at the end of last term.Whether that's because they are refreshed or because they have just developed that little bit moreI can't say.particularly evident with reading

Discolite & Feralgirl remember the levels children arrive with in Y7 have been externally marked

I hate the way that some teachers think that all learning happens in school

Really, serin? I've been teaching for 11 years and I've never met a teacher who thinks that way.

I'm sure there is a bit if a slide back. However there s also pressure to make sure there levels are as good as they can be at the end of the year. So, whilst they may not be taught to the tests etc as happens at end of ks2 tests they are still very aware that they must do their best etc- which isn't going o be their " average " on the whole iyswim.

DH teaches primary and like previous teachers have noted, what he " gets" to start with isn't the same as the previous teacher levels say. This was a big issue when the infants / juniors were separate over the yr2-yr3 boundary.

"What I can say, however, is that in September there are many children who -even in the relatively affluent area I teach in - will admit that they haven't picked up a book or a pen or pencil in the full 6+ weeks. That must have an impact of some sorts."

I find that extraordinary but know, from everything I read in the papers and on MN, that it is true.

I really, really don't push my DD (6.9) to do school work during the holidays but almost inevitably she has read lots of books and her reading fluency has improved hugely. And she has written postcards and letters and written messages in her "secret book" (a little diary) with little or no prompting.

mrz - every secondary teacher consistently complains of the levels being wrong.

I wonder if it's because there's no moderation between Y6 and Y7 teachers so their defn of L3 or L4 are different?

I don't think it's because the test is just one day rather than there whole year's work - because teacher assessment scores are broadly similar to their SAT results....

In all years it is def in the teacher's interest to mark them down at the beginning of the year and to mark them up at the end of the year (ie to show good progress.) And I think this has a large psychological effect on their marking (ie subconsciously)

"In all years it is def in the teacher's interest to mark them down at the beginning of the year and to mark them up at the end of the year (ie to show good progress.) And I think this has a large psychological effect on their marking (ie subconsciously)"

I've definitely noticed this with my DD (four years of school so far). I have learned to take reports with a very large pinch of salt and use more reliable external sources to check her progress in some areas.

Been teaching 11 years now, I'm Head of MFL in a large secondary school.
If we ignore levels, I actually think students return in September much more refreshed and focussed. I'm looking forward to having a storming few weeks with my GCSE groups before the malaise sets in!! The last few weeks of term, particularly leading upto Christmas and Summer hols, are terrible in terms of classroom learning. Students simply think it is their right to sit and watch movies or play games (not in my classroom though!!)
(My comment about ignoring levels is because I really don't like them!! For example, a student achiving level 3 in MFL must be able to say/write/read/hear 3 phrases that include an opinion. For level 4, it is 4 phrases that include an opinion. Yet to achieve level 5, you MUST include a different tense. So you can have a great student who is able to describe, expand, get adjective agreement correct, etc. but unless they unnaturally include a past tense phrase they cannot progress beyond level 4. Ridiculous! But I do support the need to have a measure, just not sure if this is the best way). Rant over :o

Indigo the levels a child enters secondary with is the one externally awarded by the SAT markers (yes schools do send teacher assessments and files but literacy & numeracy levels are on a nice print out from the QCDA).
We work very closely with out main feeder comp and work is moderated.

Recently we had a visit from a group of local secondary heads and year 7 coordinators and they were shocked at the level the children are actually working at. Without exception they confessed they set targets much lower than the work children are doing in primary because they didn't realise what the expectations of the NC are in KS2 and as Mummy2May says they have been ignoring levels and starting children off a year or more behind.
Next year we are working even more closely and staff from the schools are coming in to observe Y6 lessons and the core subject coordinators from my school are going into Y7 to work with staff and children.

In all years it is def in the teacher's interest to mark them down at the beginning of the year and to mark them up at the end of the year (ie to show good progress.)

That wouldn't work - the progress is defined from the level end of the previous year, not the beginning of the new one. Progress has to be shown from there.

Re the primary/secondary discrepancy - the level is externally marked, so the therefore benchmark is set externally. Teacher assessments usually match it. I think the shortfall is caused by the levels being decided in May (both TA and tests) and then there is so much to pack in to the last half term (transition work, residentials, end of term production, etc) that with the best will in the world, work might at best be less formal for quite a long while. Add in the huge culture shock when changing to secondary (however good the transition) and it's no wonder Y7 children don't perform at a certain level for a while.

Mummy2May - I would have thought that assessing MFL levels has to be one of the hardest tasks out!

Surely some of your pupils must make startling progress over the summer if they have been on language courses/extended visits and actually practiced their language skills in situ?

Bonsoir we have introduced an online reading programme which has been available over the summer for 100+ pupils who are enrolled. As I'm changing books and monitoring how well it's work I check in fairly regularly and exactly TEN pupils have accessed it in the six weeks!

That wouldn't work - the progress is defined from the level end of the previous year, not the beginning of the new one. Progress has to be shown from there.

Feenie - that's very interesting. Thanks for that. I know that with the transition from infant school to junior school they disregarded the infant KS1 marks, downgraded DD (by 2 sub levels) and then targeted her to make 2 sub levels of progress (from the downgraded levels)......

I don't think they'll be brave enough to do that again this year......

mrz - so much for all your efforts

We are having an end-of-holidays clearing up day - undoing all the Lego creations of the past weeks, sorting out the dolls house and farm village that has overtaken a quarter of the dining room, collecting up and sorting all the books DD has read, putting the maps we have constantly consulted for our journeys back...

How does an online reading programme work? Do the kids actually read online, or just note which books they've read?

We went to France for our family holiday and my youngest who is 9 had a go at asking for things in French and made a couple of French friends while playing football. He has just been at a camp and had a fab time.

I will probably get him doing some reading to refresh him before he starts year 5 in September. He has no problems with maths (he's better than me anyway!). I love spending time with him and his brother(20 years) and sister (18 years), that's what we have children for, to enjoy them as all too soon they are off to University and moving out of the family home.

My dd2 had two weeks off our usual reading practice (20 min before bed, with the usual Biff and Chip type books) when on her hols with her grandparents. When she read again after the holiday, she'd leapt along quite dramatically! Perhaps for some children having a short break allows then to relax mentally in a beneficial way. I have also noticed her writing is much better. I'm sure this is simply physical maturity (which is why to the poster whose teacher was flapping about non-writing in a not five year old, it's just ridiculous that writing is constantly pushed so early when it is dependent on fine motor co=ordination which is largely developmentally determined).