National Child Measurement Programme

[Pseudonym99]

Hi

How many of you have actually been asked to provide consent to have your child(ren) measured as part of the National Child Measurement Programme (as oppossed to just being given the opportunity to opt out)?

And which local authority area are you in?

I think you may be missing the point.

The school is not/not responsible. It is the PCT who is responsible. I linked above the extensive guidelines, which includes the model letter to parents with full information on the opt out.

If you have had a bad experience with a PCT not following these standards, then could I reiterate my suggestion above that you follow the grievance procedure? Trying to involve third parties (ie the school) is only going to confuse the matter of where responsibility for consent/opt out actually lies.

The school IS responsible. They invite PCT staff onto their site to do this - its not like the PCT have a legal right to force the school to comply. So therefore the school IS responsible for what happens on their premises to the children they are responsible for on behalf of the parents. Not opting-out is not the same thing as consenting. The problem is not the PCT not following the guidelines - it is the guidelines themselves that are flawed. Yet again the nanny state making decisions on behalf of parents. The school is not the third party - it is the PCT that is the third party, as it is the school's property that it is occurring on, and it is the school that is responsible for the children.

According to the Regulations passed by parliament the PCTs (or school) do not need specific consent they only need to offer the right to withdraw (para 4.4) (I couldn't be bothered to find the relevant SI as well...)

This is also clearly stated in the guidance to schools (para 3.19)

You still haven't explained why you have such a beef with this?

In fact here is the relevant statutory instrument ...

We were given a "blanket" consent form at beginning of school term ( Iseem to recall it had a tickbox list of things that it might include). And a specific opt out form at the time of Child Measurement. We opted out, incidentally, as did a couple of others from DS's class.

Regardless of the Government's guidance or statutory instruments, HCPs have a responsibility to ask for consent in order to uphold the reputation of their profession. In other words, they are bounded by regulations more stringent than the law.

The beef I have with it is explained in post numbers 3 and 7.

Pseudonum - I think you are very lucky to have nothing more important to worry about. May your children continue to do so well at school that this is your biggest worry.....

Thank you. The reason they do so well is because I care so much about the little things.

?

HCPs have to ask for consent before treatment (or could in theory be charged with assault as you said) but I don't think people count weighing & measuring a child as "treatment" & regardless of what you think, SIs = legislation = The Law, so I doubt you could sue a HCP for assault or report them for misconduct to their professional body for measuring your child without your specific written permission when the law says they can...

Have rechecked posts 3 & 7 and all you say is you expect active consent not right to withdraw - not WHY this is so important to you in relation to the measurement programme - eg what it is about a school nurse measuring your child you don't like or was it that your withdrawal request ignored etc? If it was in relation to an injection etc I could understand, but just measuring a child - eh? As with most (all?) folk on this thread, I can't see what you are getting so het up about?

Pseudonym99 I completely agree with you. Health professionals do have to obtain consent before carrying out basic procedures. And it is assault and battery if they dont . I understand the problem with obesity in our country, but I was one of those who opted out of the scheme. Fgs when will people stop interfering in how we parent our children . Here we Go with the nanny state again telling perfectly informed amd educated people how to feed and how much exercise they should give their children . As a health professional I don't think we give parents enough credit . My DD does not need the stress of being weighed - she has only recently been signed off from a paed following long term feeding and low weight issues as a result of growth retardation . She is already called ' skinny ' in the playground . I don't want some unknown school nurse giving me advice and judgments on my daughters weight thanks very much when I have been an expert in managing her diet for the past 6 years.

Betsyboop- hcp's have to obtain consent to carry out any ' intervention' not treatment as you have stated . An intervention is weighing , measuring , taking bp etc etc . And yes regardless of pct's , health authorities and so on ... It is down to the health care professional doing it there and then to make sure that consent has been obtained .

Hebrewlass: although rebranded in 2007, paediatric surveillance (in terms of weighing and measuring children) has been carried out routinely and annually state schools in UK since the 1940s, and its earliest successes were in identifying major problems with malnutrition. The information thus gathered is important to health planners.

You will also see from the linked documents that the HCP will not be giving any advice to the individual children, and the sample "results" letters do not do this either. It would be a great shame if misplaced concerns about "advice and judgements" were to undermine what has been, for 60+ years an important resource for planners, and also for research.

Thank you, Hebrew. I'm glad someone else sees it from my viewpoint! This is why consent is need and should be explicit - because everyone has different views on the subject. Some people don't care - just give them any bit of paper and they will sign it, others will want to do a load of research first. The trouble with an opt-out system is the HCP will have no way of knowing if the parent has received the form, or if the form has gone missing after they have opted out. If you have to give explicit consent, then the fact the form exists and is signed means the parent has received the information.

Scaevola: Hewbrew does state in her post that she doesn't want an unknown school nurse giving her advice and judgements - not her children. And concerns are not misplaced - a concern is a concern, and for people to say otherwise just makes people even more suspicious of the state.

At the end of the day, opt-out systems support those who want to be nannied, at the same time as alienating those who like to be autonomous. The issue of opt-out is where does it end - measuring children, taking organs, allowing TV crews to tag along with ambulances to film people when they're at their most vulnerable for the purposes of entertainment?

And I suppose everyone opting out should demand an acknowledgement that the opt-out has been received, otherwise if your child gets measured they will deny they received the form and you will have no proof.

Scaevola- where I live they send the info to the childs gp - and because our DD is low in percentiles then yes we do get hcp's who do not know my family or my child's history , advising us to for Eg put extra butter in her mashed potato . Hence I do not need or want their involvement . As I have said I have become far more an expert in retaining weight on my DD . Also, you state the research is important , but the research is flawed from the word go because the percentile charts are very outdated and there are concerns over the accuracy of them .

They don't use the usual centile charts.

If your GP is unaware of your DD's referral to a specialist paediatric and nutrition services, then there is something very wrong with your GPs record keeping and I agree with you that it is totally unacceptable. Have you complained to your GP about their standards?

And Pseudonymous - I think suggesting a 60+ year old paediatric weighing/measuring survey has suddenly become thin end of wedge in terms of invasive medical procedures is scaremongering.

"just makes people even more suspicious of the state."

Of course, why didn't I realise, it's all a Big Brother conspiracy, nuff said...

Yep, they're softening us and our children up to take our organs without our consent when we due. (They probably already do it).

Is that before or after you're killed you die?

Pseudonym you are joking with that last post. Aren't you?

Semi-serious. They do bring up the subject of presumed (aka no) consent every now and again, don't they?