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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

National Child Measurement Programme

75 replies

Pseudonym99 · 22/08/2011 15:20

How many of you have actually been asked to provide consent to have your child(ren) measured as part of the National Child Measurement Programme (as oppossed to just being given the opportunity to opt out)?

And which local authority area are you in?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 22/08/2011 22:17

And the resaon I have no more pressing issues to deal with is because I deal with all the smaller issues before they become big ones.

OP posts:

thehairybabysmum · 22/08/2011 22:26

Common assault.....for measuring your child....you have taken overthinking things to a new level!!

Why does it matter that much to you?

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 22/08/2011 23:10

It is not overthinking. If I allow my child to be measured without consent, what will be done without consent in the future? Schools ask for consent for everything else, so why not this? Zero tolerance is what is needed, so that everyone knows where they stand and trust is not abused.

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sixpinetrees · 22/08/2011 23:36

My child is measured every 8 weeks. He steps on the scales and the nurse records the result, he steps off the scales and stands next to the height tape measure, the nurse records the result. She doesn't need to speak more than a dozen words to him let alone manhandle him or commonly assault him. He is 2 and has SN so I would be surprised if the average 5yo couldn't manage.

My other children took part in the measurement programme. I consented rather than failed to opt out. I think its valuable that the government has information about future health issues.

I would disagree that schools ask for consent for 'everything else'.

thehairybabysmum · 23/08/2011 00:02

What happens if in a class project to learn about maths/science the children and teacher all measure each others feet (eg)...is this an abuse of trust .

Seriously, you are completely blowing this out of proportion!

bruffin · 23/08/2011 00:15

I had to sign a consent form for both dcs, I actually would rather have been opted out as I forgot to sign the form and DS is now not included and I was quite happy for him to be weighed and measured.

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 23/08/2011 00:50

hairybaby - Where would you draw the line as to what consent should be asked for, and when consent needn't be asked?

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CaptainNancy · 23/08/2011 01:11

Sorry- why would your school not have obtained consent? Everyone I know had consent forms.

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 23/08/2011 01:43

Because Government guidelines say that they do not need to seek consent. So I am wondering how many Local Authorities go by the Government Guidelines, and how many take the ethical and sensible option and ask for consent.

OP posts:

Scaevola · 23/08/2011 07:49

This isn't an LEA issue.

Here is guidance for PCTs, who run the programme. You will see that its model "letter to parents" includes 'opt out' information.

Scaevola · 23/08/2011 07:53

Sorry - hit "post" too soon: want to add:

It is literally correct BTW that schools do not have to obtain consent. This is simply because the school is not running the programme, and instead is permitting the NHS to run its programme on school premises (handy place to reach the target group). But it is not the true picture for parental consent - as PCTs will include opt out information in their information to parents letter.

thehairybabysmum · 23/08/2011 08:18

I would expect to be asked to consent to something invasive, injections for one. But simply do not understand getting worked up over whether you expressly consent or opt out of being measured?

Why is an opt out insufficient as a form of consent? Or do you mean that you have not even been given this option?

Highlander · 23/08/2011 08:38

When DS1 had this in Reception, we had an opt-out letter home.

There were a lot of parents raging because their child was classed as overweight. Total denial that their kids were chubby age 5.

Of course, they received nothing on how to keep their kids weight down

MumToTheBoy · 23/08/2011 08:54

My ds was weighed and measured at school. He is 116cm tall and weighs 3stone 2pounds. The letter I received said he was 113cm tall and weighed 4stone 10pounds. Resulting in a letter from the director of the NHS saying my ds is obese and listing all of the illnesses he will suffer from as an adult. I rang the school to ask who weighed him and was given the number for a local GP surgery. When I rang them, they said oh yes mistakes happen all the time, don't worry if you know he's not overweight.

So there could be hundreds of children incorrectly weighed/ measured and parents being told their child is over or under weight. But also there could be people putting their children on diets for no reason or some not realising their child is overweight. It's worrying

ButHeNeverDid · 23/08/2011 09:06

"assault" ..... for measuring and weighing a child

So what word do you use when someone is hit or pushed or had their hair pulled?

Do you use the same word?

Because to me they are very different.

thebitchandherwomb · 23/08/2011 09:19

I would expect that teaching staff, medical practitioners and practically any adult working with children would be allowed to touch them. We're talking hand on skin. We're not talking "touch" as in abuse. We're not talking "touch" as in punch. Contact between people is a fairly normal part of being human. Does the OP get the kids in her DC's class to sign consent forms before her DC holds hands with them in class?

seeingonlyred · 23/08/2011 10:21

thecaptaincrocfamily thank you for your advice. I will dig out DS's red book and get plotting.

Personally I would not be annoyed if DS was weighed and measured without my consent as long as this was done sensitively and that children at the extremes of size and weight were not made to feel uncomfortable. I would prefer to know that this is happening so that any follow-up letters I might receive do not come ?out of the blue?. I can also see why some parents would prefer their children not to take part.

No one likes to hear criticism of their child or their parenting. So, to hear your child is outside the acceptable range would be difficult. However, IMO it is an important health issue which needs to be acted upon, however difficult it is to hear.

I think classing touching without permission as abuse is OTT. DS gets a hug from the TA if he is upset, other children and teachers hold his hand, his swimming teacher holds him close in the water. To class appropriate touching from a school nurse as abuse is ridiculous.

Takver · 23/08/2011 11:56

MumtotheBoy, surely the answer in these circs is to take your DC along to the surgery for a checkup? If there is a mistake - or indeed if there isn't - surely the nurse or your GP can advise. I guess for me the weight check at school is just (a) for UK wide statistical purposes, and (b) to tell me if I need to take further action - ie, go to my GP.

Similarly when dd had sight/hearing checkups in KS1, and there were some concerns we just went to the optician to get a full sight test and investigation. If their test had been wrong the worst that would have happened would have been a wasted morning.

BetsyBoop · 23/08/2011 12:08

seeingonlyred

you can also use this to keep an eye on things.

Is your DS particularly tall for his age?
Apparently (according to a friend who is also a school nurse) it is quite common for the very tall YR children to sometimes come back as "overweight" when really they are not. (She wishes she could just use her eyes professional judgment in those cases rather than send out stupid misleading letters)

seeingonlyred · 23/08/2011 12:40

Thank you Betsy.

Yes, DS is tall for his age. Plus his head, feet and hand are big.

dizzyday07 · 23/08/2011 16:18

I think we were asked for consent (Telford & Wrekin) - but it was nearly 2 years ago now so it's hard to remember!

I do remember being worrired that I would get a letter telling me that DD was too skinny! She is almost 7 but still only weighs 3 stone - but she is tall for her age. (She's always been in the high 90s% for height and the mid 20s% for weight).

But what came out of it was that she is marginally deaf which they have been monitoring ever since

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 23/08/2011 21:47

Butheneverdid - pushing or pulling hair I would call bullying or being boystrous. A Medical Professional who should know better should know about the need to ask for consent. Therefore yes, if no consent exists, then it is assault.

Getting a hug when upset is different, as the child needs comforting due to an incident. Causing the incident to happen in the first place is different.

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Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 23/08/2011 21:49

scaevola - the fact this is carried out by an agency otherthan the school makes it all that more important that consent is obtained - a school would be placing itself in a very dodgy position by allowing an outside agency access to children without parental consent...

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Scaevola · 24/08/2011 08:27

Pseudonym99: do you work in this area? Because if so, you will have already seen the 2011/12 guidelines for schools which explicitly refer to the role of the PCT in informing parents of the opt out. There really is no role for the school, the LEA or the DofE to duplicate this PCT and NHS role.

If you are aware of an incident where the PCT has not acted correctly, then it may be appropriate to activate the complaint/grievance mechanism.

Original poster

Pseudonym99 · 24/08/2011 13:46

Guidleines are just that - guidelines. They do not have to be followed, and any school with common sense will realise they are flawed and will seek parental consent. Any school that does not seek consent only have themselves to blame if a parent then took civil and/or criminal action against the school and healthcare professionals involved.

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