Was it OK for children to change in public?

[spooksfan]

My daughter has just started a new school, and is in reception. Her class recently had a trip to a local wildlife park, and I was a parent volunteer. The activities included a splash in the paddling pool, and the class teacher asked children to get changed in the open, by the paddling pool, even though changing facilities were available. I said at the time that I felt this was inappropriate and took my daughter to get changed in the changing rooms. Also, I was asked to take the group of children I was supervising to the toilet out of the view of the teachers, and I was also asked to help the children get changed, even though I have not been vetted in any way by the school.

I subsequently raised my concerns in an email to the headteacher and had a meeting with her yesterday. She was fairly lukewarm about my comments saying the usual PC stuff like 'it's good to have your views' etc. She said that there had been a breakdown in communication and that the teacher had not asked me to help get the children changed but merely to supervise them. However, later on in the conversation she said that parents should expect that if a trip involves changing parent volunteers will be assisting.

My question is: is it standard practice for classes of children to get changed outside on trips, and would parents generally have any concerns/objections?

Also, is it reasonable to expect that only vetted individuals should be supervising children for toilet visits/changing?

Our school struggles for parent helpers.DH volunteered last time when they were going to an event in a local secondary school. I don't think they have the luxury of keeping lists and crossing off who is and isn't suitable!

Some young children are shy about getting changed in public and if that is the case then their feelings must be respected

My 8.7 year old DS played in an inter school football tournament today, at the end the deputy head told them all to get changed there and then as he was taking the kit home. nobody batted an eye lid TBH

I think MRZ has the best idea!

'I don't find the idea that the parents are CRB checked comforting at all'

sadly in the area i live in there has been a spate of arrests of senior teachers for posessing child porn.A teacher is just as likely to be a paedo as a parent.The only thing you CAN do is keep in mind the vast majority of people are good and to equip your child with the knowledge to know when something isn't right and the confidence to stand up for themselves in these cases!

Yes, I know that parents are capable of going on a trip without a CRB check. However, I don't think this happens often - in my experience schools insist on one.

My children's school insists on a CRB check for all parent helpers and has no shortage of volunteers. Only those parents who regularly help in school get the opportunity to go on school trips. Again no shortage of volunteers. The school I work at, however, has very few parent helpers in school and struggles to get helpers for school trips. They don't insist on CRB checks. Horses for courses maybe?

I wouldn't find it a problem having reception age children changing in public. I'm not sure what age I'd feel it was inappropriate, juniors maybe?

Our nursery and reception class are going on a trip tomorrow and every child has a parent accompanying them and no not all are CRB checked
IME schools don't insist on them for parents who only have a rare supervised contact with children. It's very sad that our society mistrusts everyone ... what do people want ? everyone to be CRB checked? Look how well that worked in the recent nursery cases ...

i think a lot of the problem is schools having to cover their backs - I mean if the school let a parent or other volunteer on a trip who does not have a crb check and they then behave inappropriately then heads will roll.

Other visitors or a delivery person or employee of the wild life park would have the same opportunity as a supervised volunteer to behave "inappropriately" perhaps they need to be CRB checked too?

Our head doesnt like parents going on trips if their own child is going and TBH I can see why in some cases. OP, I hope you arranged adequate cover for the children you left behind whilst deciding what everybody else was doing wasnt good enough for your own child.

CRB checks aren't worth the paper they are written on, they are only valid on the day of issue and only show what people have actually been caught doing.

mrz - hopefully the teachers wouldn't be asking the delivery staff to take the children to the toilet or get them dressed!!!

HappyMummyOfOne - personally I have my doubts about the 'adequacy' of the teacher and TA in question, but yes, there was cover! FYI, it is not only my perogative but my responsibility as a parent to decide what is not 'good enough' for my child - I hope you have the common sense to do the same.

Also, re your assertion that CRB checks 'aren't worth the paper they are written on', how is having this information irrelevant? Would you rather give a free rein to those who have already been caught?

No but people could be using the toilet spooksfan and act inappropriately or do you want to ban everyone from the park.

Perhaps you missed the high profile cases of CRB checked nursery workers found guilt???
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6249672/Nursery-worker-child-sex-abuse-case-Vanessa-George-profile.html

I suspect OP won't be asked to help again.

I would take bets on it exoticfruits unless the school completes a risk assessment on her in case she decides to "do her own thing"!

mrz - doesn't your point about the toilet simply emphasise the need for children to be supervised by an appropriately qualified adult? Re: the nursery worker case, I think we have all heard/read about this, but again that just reinforces the need for caution: it shows that there is always risk, and common sense dictates that the less you do to eliminate risk the greater the risk will be. It's not rocket science!

exoticfruits - do you REALLY think I would be volunteering again?!!!!!

Oh, dear god, you are a MUM of one of the children, how dangerous do you think the school see you as? Children will end up sitting indoors with teachers only before long.

What in earth were you afraid of in taking your dd to the changing room? Actually as a parent helper, I think that was out of order - you are there to make up numbers and look after ALL the children, not be a personal helicopter for your own during school hours.

Sometimes teachers may want children changing altogether rather than in cubicles for specific reasons too - have taught three children from one family where keeping a sharp eye out when they were changing meant you could notice any suspicious bruises etc.

So what risk is there in a group of children getting changed in a controlled area outdoors with appropriately qualified adults supervising compared to the risk of a parent taking a group of children into a toilet block for them to get changed?

I like the term "personal helicopter".

So good to hear of a school trip where the children can go in a paddling pool! So rare these days.
Personally I find the claim that 4 and 5 year olds want privacy hard to take. Any embarrassment they bring has been modelled by parents.
Why can't children just be children? There aren't any more incidents than there were years ago....it's just that they are far more publicised by the media.

I would be happy enough for my 5 year old to get changed outside. I take his wetsuit off at the poolside after swimming lessons as do other parents and I have never seen a concerned child yet.

at "lists" of parents who will/won't be asked to volunteer again. I used to be asked for every trip until an adventure day with ds1 who has ADHD. All the other helpers were given 5 children whilst I was only given 3 - ds1 and the two other boys with s/n. That was some trip and the point at which I decided my volunteering days were over.

spooksfan - do you think there is a serious chance of a parent trying to touch up another child in their own child's class whilst visiting the toilet with them for 5 minutes? I would have thought this unlikely, unless said parent had an awful lot of prior knowledge about that child and his or her likely reaction. Otherwise, no sensible paedophile would take the risk, and a stupid one probably wouldn't still be in possession of their own children... The most you could risk would be touching a child in a way that meant they didn't realise it was "wrong." Otherwise, you'd need to do the whole grooming thing... and with such regular contact with children, you'd have a CRB check done on you (not that this will protect anyone if (as is likely) you haven't been caught yet, or haven't yet been caught in this country...).

I hope you never let your child go home with other children in her class unless you've had a CRB check done on the other child's parents. Thinking you know the parents well and trust them is no protection - it's the people you and your child know well who are the biggest risk...

Or maybe by vetted individuals, you meant castrated males? That doesn't necessarily stop them, you know.

I think OP just has a lot of time on her or his hands if she or he can be so fussed about all this: no one likes a fusspot!