Was it OK for children to change in public?

[spooksfan]

My daughter has just started a new school, and is in reception. Her class recently had a trip to a local wildlife park, and I was a parent volunteer. The activities included a splash in the paddling pool, and the class teacher asked children to get changed in the open, by the paddling pool, even though changing facilities were available. I said at the time that I felt this was inappropriate and took my daughter to get changed in the changing rooms. Also, I was asked to take the group of children I was supervising to the toilet out of the view of the teachers, and I was also asked to help the children get changed, even though I have not been vetted in any way by the school.

I subsequently raised my concerns in an email to the headteacher and had a meeting with her yesterday. She was fairly lukewarm about my comments saying the usual PC stuff like 'it's good to have your views' etc. She said that there had been a breakdown in communication and that the teacher had not asked me to help get the children changed but merely to supervise them. However, later on in the conversation she said that parents should expect that if a trip involves changing parent volunteers will be assisting.

My question is: is it standard practice for classes of children to get changed outside on trips, and would parents generally have any concerns/objections?

Also, is it reasonable to expect that only vetted individuals should be supervising children for toilet visits/changing?

Sorry I missed your post Pagwatch, we must have posted at the same time.

I think the OP has a point actually, assuming the kids were naked at some point (swimming costumes presumably?). If they stripped to their pants then no big deal. Firstly while some, maybe even most, kids would have been happy to be naked in front of each other, some wouldn't. Not in front of their peers. And I doubt their parents would have been too happy either, esp. not in public.

Re supervising a group of children alone, whether in the toilet or elsewhere I think this is unwise at best, from the pov of protecting the OP. Sadly it only takes one person to mis-hear and/or misconstrue what a child said and the OP would be in a very vulnerable position indeed.

I would check the actual children protection guildelines with either OFSTED or the LEA and refer the matter to the Governors if necessary. At the very least the HT and her team need their training updating.

Teachermumof3 - why the problem with a parent being a parent i.e. deciding what is/is not appropriate for their child? So many complaints these days about a lack of parenting but your view shows that, as a teacher, you do not really want/respect positive parenting. If it is OK for a parent to decide that they want their children to attend a faith school because of their religious principles, why is it wrong for a parent to object to an aspect of school/teaching practice that is at odds with their non-religious values?

Perhaps it is teachers such as you who are undermining the role of parents...after all, you are a child's teacher until they move class/school or until you've changed jobs or retired - parents are parents for life.

titchy - thank you for your post and for the signposting/info...will follow up.

Thanks Rita. I wasn't sure if you were responding tome because of the 14 year old reference.
X-posted.

Parents are not generally allowed to go on school trips without a CRB check.

Chillistars - parents are pefectly able to go on children's trips, help out in the classroom etc etc etc WITHOUT a CRB check. However current guidelines say they should NOT be left alone with children - they should be supervised by someone who has been CRB checked at all times.

Teachermumof3 - why the problem with a parent being a parent i.e. deciding what is/is not appropriate for their child?

My problem would be... if I had a class of children on a trip; they would be all in my care, but groups of eg 4-5 children would be allocated to a responsible adult. If that 'responsible adult' decided to take their own child off to get changed separately to the rest, that would be a real pain!

Are there really many 4 or 5 year olds bothered about being naked in front of their peers?!!!! Seems like a rather peculiar attitude to me.

my school does allow paretn volunteers who are not CRB checked (could never run school trips for th einfants otherwise!) but is very very strict about non-CRB checked individuals being with the childrn eout of sight of the teacher and certianly they wouldn;t be allowed into the toilets with childrne. They are however allowed to take their own child if necessary.

I don;t see taking your own child to the toilet is a problme provided that you haven't just left th erest of your group unattended.

I have a 5 year old and I have helped on a couple of shcool trips this year. Can;t imagine many 5 yr olds being very selfconscious but its possible.

I am surprised that any school age children were expected to strip to naked for changing in the open.

My 5 yr daughter would have been very uncomfortable with that and would have either refused or complied and probably become very upset/cried about it. From my limited experience of her closest schoolfriends who have been around for playdates her attitude is not uncommon.

What were the available changing facilities like????? I'd rather my children stripped off in the open than went into dingy changing rooms with no-one available to help them/someone they don't know very well squeezing into a changing cubicle with them, and then having the hassle of walking barefoot across possibly dirty ground to get back to the pool, or having to put shoes back on, then take them off again, not knowing where to leave clothes if they were now out of sight in a public changing room rather than by the poolside etc, etc (which would probably result in there not really being enough time to have a splash about in the first place). It's not as if they don't change for PE in the classroom at school all together at that age. As for a 5-year old crying about being naked - I can see a child being upset if it makes them cold, but other than that don't understand why a child would find it upsetting when everyone else is doing it around them, unless they have been told by an adult that it is unacceptable to be seen to be naked in public, in absolutely any context and at whatever age (in which case, they must be shocked and upset every time they see a naked toddler or baby at the beach).

ps I also don't see how any of the children could have spent more than a few seconds actually naked, if they had to get naked at all - it's not that difficult to change into a swimming costume without spending extended periods of time in the nude...

Have to say that I am just impressed that children were allowed to go paddling on a school trip.

I asked dd and she said she didnt think it was a good idea but if she had to she would cover up with a towel. She also said that she would rather go on a different trip.

We don't get naked in public and she doesnt get changed for PE with the boys either so perhaps it is different to in the OPs scenario, but it isnt especially unusual around here.

'Have to say that I am just impressed that children were allowed to go paddling on a school trip.'

Wait until next time...

Presumably, if children had their swimming costumes with them, parents were aware they would be changing into them at some point and that with a class of thirty 4 and 5 year olds, they weren't going to be getting individual cubicles to change in on their own????? In which case, wouldn't most parents, therefore, have expected their children to be changing in front of other children and adults? So, is the changing in public problem actually more a somewhat unreasonable paranoia about adults potentially seeing young children momentarily naked?

If there are changing facilities there, wouldnt the parents have probably assumed (like the Op) that the children would change there, so minimum single sex communal changing rooms?

Why wouldn't reception children change in cubicles (if they were available)? DD changes in a cubicle before/after swimming

I went on a preschool trip today. My DD1 (4.8) at the mere mention of 'yes we can go in the splash pool', ran across the grass stripping of her clothes as fast as she was able. Only after she was naked did she decide to work out where her cozzie was.

I have absolutely no problem with this and would be very sad if she was so self conscious that it would affect her natural exuberance at this age.

Very that people think this might be 'wrong' in some way. BTW, if the child wants privacy themselves, then yes, they should be granted it (changing behind a towel for example) but i would hate a blanket 'policy' for everyone

I see the privacy argument, but I think it's sad for our society that we think that 4 year-olds have anything to hide.

Society does dictate that we don't go around half dressed in most circumstances, but pools/beaches are a situation where it's completely acceptable to be wearing a minimum (and in fact we'd find it odd if they weren't) - is it really that unusual to get changed on the beach (adults under towel/t-shirt, but kids just strip usually). If it's OK at the beach, why isn't it OK at a paddling pool?

And the CRB check thing is a joke - I don't find the idea that the parents are CRB checked comforting at all, since there's always a first time (not that I'm paranoid, the chances of anything happening are so low that there's no point thinking about them)

A lot of Reception children wouldn't realistically be able to change quickly and efficiently on their own in cubicles, because quite a few would still need a bit of help to make sure they didn't drop their socks and pants on the wet floor, get their costumes on back to front, take hours getting changed unsupervised, be unable to unlock the door afterwards, leave one of their shoes behind in the cubicle to get lost, etc, plus the fact it is unbelievably unlikely that there would be 30 little cubicles in a changing room at a wildlife park - the point of the place is more the wildlife than the paddling pool. So there would be queues of little people waiting for a spare cubicle... As for wanting a single sex changing room - I can't believe someone would be so bothered about 5-year olds seeing the body parts of 5-year olds of the opposite sex - plus what on earth are teachers supposed to do in that instance in the fairly likely event that there are no adult male helpers for the boys? Invade, en masse, on the privacy of any adult males in the boys' changing area by going in with them? Send them into the changing rooms alone to face lone adult males they don't know?... I can see just as many issues that would upset parents and other issues there as I can with a few children quickly changing by the side of a paddling pool.

All parent helpers at my school MUST be CRB'd, even if they are in the classroom with the teacher. They certainly must be CRB'd to come on a trip especially if they are taking the children out of sight of the teacher/TA.

Easier to just stop them paddling TBH.

They could have rolled up their trouser legs and tucked their skirts in their knickers

OP, yABU