How unusual is a L3 going into Y2

[honoroakmum]

Hi my dd's teacher took me aside a couple of days ago to tell me that dd had achieved L3 in all areas and was doing very well. DD turned 6 in June. I'm thrilled that she is doing so well but how unusual is it to be on L3 going into Y2? One child in a class or more unusual than that?

Maybe they gave child old (2005/7) level 3 SATS papers for reading and maths. I would say it is very very difficult for a year 1 to get level 3's for everything. You can't give a level 3 if they don't achieve it in the written tests when levelling in year 2.

You can't give a level 3 if they don't achieve it in the written tests when levelling in year 2.

Er.. yes, you can. What if you did the tests back in January, and you had clear, thorough, plentiful evidence of a child working at a level 3? Of course you can!

He has had 100% on his spellings ALL YEAR but still only got the 1A for english...what's a kid to do????

Spelling is only a small part of the writing assessment, MrsKravitz.

Writing can be subjective, but LEAs do moderate to help ensure consistency, and OFSTED check, too. Schools moderate across the school to monitor consistency, also.

do private schools come under LEA/OFSTED moderation?

No. I think they can ask OFSTED to come in, for a fee.

My DS had 2a s across the board at the end of Yr 1 and he has a late August birthday. He and another boy in his class (also with an August birthday) sat the SATs with the Yr 2s that year, with the consent of us parents, as practice so that their teacher could get a good idea of where they were because they were so far ahead of their peers. Both boys were not even 6. Neither of them got 3s admittedly but we know they were fair and balanced assessments because they did the SATS papers.

They've both just finished year Yr 6 and both have level 5s across the board in the KS2 SATS, including the optional science SAT. What I'm trying to say is that just because you have level 3s in Yr 1 doesn't mean they will carry on on that trajectory and be Einstein at the end of Yr 4. They're obviously both reasonably bright boys who will go on to do well at secondary school all being well but there are other children in Yr 6 who have got 5s who weren't considerd to be as bright as my DS and the other lad in Yr 1.

I think people can read a little bit too much into these levels. Children develop at different paces and my advice to any parent would be to just let your child be as they are, encourage and support both them and the school in their learning and just let them enjoy all aspects of school without applying any undue pressure or becoming too overly focussed on pure academic achievement.

It is rare, but not unhead.If you post on Gifted and Talented, you mignt feel back to earth again.
Well done!Keep going!

Sorry Feenie. That didn't explain very well. I mean for maths and reading. In year 2 you cannot just teacher assess a level 3. They have to have done the tests. The moderator would definitely be asking for the tests as evidence of a level 3.

Actually, that's not right either. The tests can be done at any time at all in Y2, as part of the assessment journey. A teacher could choose to use the tests to inform her teaching very early on, when a child is a level 2, and a level 2 paper would be most appropriate at that time. Children may only be tested once in a year, so if a child subsequently progressed on to a secure level 3, lots of evidence would be required to support that judgement, but another test actually cannot be given.

A moderator would want to see robust, thorough assessment to be satisfied that the assessment was correct, but assessing a level 3 without testing is perfectly possible in that scenario.

I am aware that the tests can be done at any time in year 2. I am just quoting what the moderators said to the year 2 teacher
in my old school. There were adamant that they wanted to see a level 3 in maths and reading tests (actually they expected this for anything more than 2C) Not just proved on APP levelling grids with proof in books etc. I had discussing things like this by typing. Find it so hard to be clear!

Hate not had...I also hate iPhones!

That's shocking. I'd have referred the moderators to the ARA 2011.

No confidence in teacher assessment!

This was last year so if it is in the ARA 2011 guidance hopefully she will have been able to show it to them. I am in year 1 now...no SATS, yay!

I'm a key stage one moderator. While I don't moderate writing (this is done at teacher workshops in our authority), I've seen plenty of children's work where they are clearly a level three (eg in maths), teacher evidence and assessment backs this up, work has been differentiated, but they didn't quite get a level 3 on the test. The test forms a part of the assessment process and helps to inform the overall teacher assessment. It isn't the be all and end all that it once was. I've also seen cases where the child has achieved a level 3 on the test but there has been no other evidence that they are working consistently at level 3, often because they haven't been given the opportunity to do so. If, on further investigation, the child has achieved a level 3 on the test but hasn't got many of the 'number' type questions correct, I would find it difficult to agree that they are a good, all round level 3. As for spelling, it is a very small part of the writing Mark. I would suggest a good speller with a low overall writing level probably needs to work on composition and effect in order to up their level.

Just to clarify, I moderate masses of writing in my own school. I would suggest that either the moderator was talking crap or the teacher has misunderstood. ARA has had tests as a part of teacher assessment for years, we did pilot for this and I think it was in 2005 ( measuring thus by how pregnant I was with which child at the time, so this is a rough estimate ) it was rolled out to other authorities the following year I think.

With reading, my ds is in the same group as a friend. She got a 2c and he got a 1a. She hasnt done comprehension yet and he has been getting and completing the comprehenion sheets for months. Plus there is the spelling as mentioned. I dont think he is a genius but I do get annoyed as i really believe he has been underrated here. To the point where Im really really upset and obsessing about it .I dont think the same for writing, he deserves a 2b, so its not being precious and unrealistic .

sorry a 1 b

Mrskravitz, there isn't a huge amount of difference between a 2c and a 1a and probably, both children have elements of higher/lower in their abilities, he'll have bits of 2c in the way he works, she'll have elements of here work that are still at 1a and probably some bits that are 2b. All children do comprehension by the way, mostly as discussion work in group reading. What you're referring to are written comprehension sheets. Anyway, the thing to do is to go and see his teacher and ask her how she has reached her decision with regard to his level. We only give levels if parents ask for them in all but year 2 and 6, we write an extensive report (half a side for maths, lit, science, less for other subjects) but with this we have a grid that shows whether they are working above, within or below national expectations.

He is in year 1 and yes the comprehensions he has are extra homework, written ones. He is a readaholic so this is why I have been so upset. Im actually shocked at how upset Ive been over this . Thanks for your info and advice :)

"She hasnt done comprehension yet and he has been getting and completing the comprehenion sheets for months." Just because a child hasn't been given comprehension sheets doesn't mean they aren't "doing" comprehension. When you look at the criteria we tick off on APP much of it is evidenced via oral work during individual and guided reading.
With spellings the actual SATs tasks give very few points to it as part of the total from two pieces of writing and the spelling tests. Being good at spelling does not make you a good writer (in fact a couple of my best writers have really ropey spelling). Look at the APP guidelines (can't remember the link, but they've been posted on MN before or google them) to get ab bigger picture of the criteria for writing beyond spelling.

Thanks. Im learning loads from here :)

What does Level 3 mean? :-S