How unusual is a L3 going into Y2

[honoroakmum]

Hi my dd's teacher took me aside a couple of days ago to tell me that dd had achieved L3 in all areas and was doing very well. DD turned 6 in June. I'm thrilled that she is doing so well but how unusual is it to be on L3 going into Y2? One child in a class or more unusual than that?

apologies to the OP

I have not in 13 years of teaching, had a Year 1 child come up as level 3 in anything; let alone everything!

teachermum I'm quite surprised about this. DD goes to a very ordinary state primary and in the second term (spring term?) parents evening she was forecast a L3 by the end of Y1 in reading and literature. I know she wasn't the only one in the class (maybe another 3 children) who were forecast L3 at the end of Y1.

We don't get the end of year report until later this week, so I don't know if she will have got this grade (and I'm not worried, either way), but she wasn't the only one to get this forecast.

I think its a TA who takes them for reading

All year!?

Culture Mulcher-I teach in an extremely deprived area with 78% EAL and over 50% FSM in Y2 currently, so maybe we don't fit snugly into the 'ordinary state primary' category.

As regards reading, I still maintain that most 6 year olds don't have enough understanding of the world and language to interpret texts.

As regards writing, I really don't see how a 5-6 year old can have enough experience of the English language to consistently write in different genres using near accurate punctuation and spelling, adjectives, adverbs, complex sentences, adverbial phrases, etc, etc.

To be a good writer you need to have had experience and knowledge of the world. You need to understand how yourself and other people tick. You need to be a good observer of things around you and you need to be able to think both analytically and creatively.

A child entering Y2 would normally be expected to progress a level before Y3. Therefore, entering Y2 at L3 would mean that the child would be expected to be working one sub-level under expected levels for Y6 at the end of KS1!!

Maybe one in a several hundred thousand.........

My goodness, that is very exceptional. Well done to your dd honoroakmum.
My dd is at the end of yr2 and we've received her levels as 3b and are enormously pleased with how she is doing. She reads a huge amount of books and finished the horrible annoying ORT at end of yr1.
In her latest story she wrote at school she wrote about the dappled sunlight on the leaves, her choice of words!
You really must be over the moon with these levels

Bustergut The y1s, although good at writing, did not have the emotional understanding to write at this level. They particularly found writing in the character of someone else very difficult, probably because they lack empathy and haven't yet developed a secure understanding of other people's emotions. Their vocabulary was also not as subtle, as precise or as 'flowing' as the level 3 writers.

I found this really useful as DD's writing although great at punctuation (full stops, capital letters, question marks, commas and beginning to use speech marks accurately), vocab and spelling doesn't have the subtlety or fluidity that you are referring to here. It's more mechanical than that so perhaps that is still to come as she matures over Y2.

Cowsgomoo I am absolutely thrilled. She has had a lovely year with a great teacher. Your dd sounds as if she is doing brilliantly. It must be a pleasure to read her stories.

Surprised it is so unusual as would imagine older members of the class might well be at level 3 standard as they go into Y2? A late August born child could be a level 3 on going into Y3, wouldn't that be the same achievement?

OP note you said your son was younger in year & in any case a great a achievement well done to him.

Sorry just noted a DD not DS :)

Good point Cortina, given that the oldest Y1 could be only 2 days younger than the youngest Y2. And several of the youngest Y2s got "all 3s" when Ds was that age.

Besides, if we generally agree that DCs reading, writing etc., progresses unevenly in progression, surely maturity can be variable too?

Ive decided these levels are totally subjective

I've decided these levels are totally cr*p

At my kid's October-of-Y2 parents' evening, I asked for his current levels. The teacher dredged out a spreadsheet from the Y1 teacher and I - very unprofessionally - scanned the class list while she explained that although DS had been levelled at 3 across the board at the end of Y1, she refused to accept the levelling for writing and was asking for a re-assessment of all the evidence. I heartily agreed.

There was three-kid cluster of children with similar scores, and I expect she subjected all of them to similar scrutiny, no doubt aided by the fact that the Y1 teacher had since left the school. That teacher - who was lovely in the extreme - identified a cohort of very able children in the year and went out of her way to cherry-pick evidence that pointed to levels she felt they were capable of achieving, instead of assessing them at the levels they were consistently achieving. Especially in writing.

I imagine that this is a not entirely unheard of phenomenon.

Indeed Devexity & something I touched on in an earlier thread. What a teacher believes about a pupil's ability can send a powerful message to the child and IMO influence their future attainment.

I bet that makes you think the fees are money well spent

I don't think a late August born child being a level 3 going into year 3 is the same thing at all. For one thing, said child has had an extra year at school, being taught how to write and practising their skills. The child has also been mixing with older children and learning from them, and being taught at their level. I think genuine level 3s across the board at year 1 must be pretty unusual, unless there are enough other children in the year working at that level that the teaching to the whole class reflects this, or the child is not working with their year group a lot of the time (otherwise, surely the child would have a hard time producing enough examples of this level of work to prove it, even if they are capable of it, without the teacher stretching the point a little?). And even then I agree that there are not many (not the same thing as none, though) 6-year old children who write with particular maturity, even if what they write is spelt well and grammatically correct. And then there's the fact that in a great many schools, where there isn't sufficient standardisation within the school of the assessments, when children enter year 3, the year 3 teachers have a completely different opinion of their actual abilities, to the point that a summer holiday and forgetting a bit can't be the only reason for the discrepancy (ie they have higher expectations). Having said that, I am certain it is possible for a child to be working at that level at the end of year 1.

I agree - it's about how much teaching at her level has gone on to allow her to show this and develop to her potential. If she is getting that you are very lucky.

Not saying this in a bragging way but in two of the three areas I think ds is definitely capable of a level 3 with the right teaching and a good amount of differentiation. He doesn't get that though in year 1 as there aren't enough kids working at that level and the teacher is over-stretched already, and so I suspect will get 2s in his report.

I managed to grab some time with DDs y1 teacher. Her sublevels were 3b on reading and maths and 3c on writing. When I asked what they had done to get her to those levels she explained that there is a small group of girls at a very high level in Y1 who work together and in addition dd has had regular sessions with ta/teacher/g&t co-ordinator to work through elements of the y2 curriculum. I have clearly underestimated the extension work that she has been given this year.
In addition, I should say that, where possible, I also extend her homeworks so eg if she had a worksheet of 2 digit additions I would add a couple of 3 digit additions on the back of the sheet.

I find getting a level 3 at the end of year 2 is nothing that surprising. Sorry but even my dyslexic son managed level 3 Maths, and I think DDs were all 3s, and they were not considered exceptionally bright. If this is seen as exceptional I would think the school has low expectations.

(Now the boy who did GCSE maths in year 3 was exceptional.)

I agree that the marks are probably not that unusual (selective private school-generally means in take is homogenous-hence 3 working at the level so can be easily differentiated for). If private school you are more likely to have pupils who have parents that put a lot of emphasis on academia as they are paying, also smaller classes. This is primary school so parental input and being given opportunities means SO much at that age.

Sorry sounds as if it is more than 3 working at that level.

mummytime the OP's DD is getting level 3s at the end of Year 1 rather than the end of Year 2, so a bit more surprising.

Hi, honoroakmum. It sounds as though you shouldn't worry about your dd's levels, then - if she's been working with a small group all aiming for that level and they've deliberately been covering year 2 work, then there's every reason to believe she has reached those levels and been able to prove it within the classroom. Hopefully she'll be getting good level 4s by the end of year 2, which I think would be very good for a child who has a June birthday!

My DS got level 3 in all sats but I'd say a few in his class did. No one is batting an eyelid. That's fine by me too. He's bright not gifted btw.

Op sorry your D is only just 6. I'm not sure but that sounds advanced but I'm surprised they're measuring at year 1 or am I naive???

Having spoken to my ds' teacher yesterday, I can see these levels are totally subjective- teacher to teacher, school to school. She explained the process and the process they go through with sats (for him next year). Its very heavily weighted on teacher's assessments. We have some exceptionally bright children in ds' class. None has been given over a 2. As mentioned above, mine is reading novels like crazy at home but has a 1A for reading. He is really very good at maths but has a 2c. He has had 100% on his spellings ALL YEAR but still only got the 1A for english...what's a kid to do???? I have a friend who's child goes to another school and her dd's spellings were like ds' reception spellings. Nothing like his really difficult ones. All totally subjective.