What's the highest of those stupid grade things that you can get in Y3?

[dinglydell]

I don't know if dd is at school with total geniuses but is it possible to get a 5c at the end of Y3 and would it be common for many kids to get a 4a in everything? Or do I know some mums who are slightly stretching the truth or maybe, like me, confused by it all?

I am baffled by your level 6 situation, singersgirl, and can't really understand why children exist at a level 6, are taught at a level 6, but can't be assessed as such in one LEA. It would seem to make a mockery of teacher assesment - if it isn't accurate, why should you have to collect the data? Why are other schools and other LEAs actually assissted to assess at a level 6 level? Why are you happy for this to happen in other schools, but not your own?

Recording a 5a child as a 5c so that progress can be shown by the Y6 teacher is dishonest, as in Emsoboe's ds's case. That's not 'statistical management'. You can't dress it up any other way. I am genuinely shocked. It was her school that I referred to, singersgirl, not yours.

Emsoboe, the level 4 at KS1 is reported centrally as a level 4 and converted into a 3 for data analysis by Raise Online. But the recorded level 4 stays with the child, and is the data returned by the LEA to report to parents and the data recorded by the school.

Would you like to enlighten me on my 'glaring omissions'? Why are you so rude?

And another thing - I cannot understand the lack of outrage on either part.

Singersgirl, the situation is clearly different in your LEA than in others. Other teachers and schools are allowed to use teacher assessment for G and T children accurately. Why shouldn't your children? God, Unquietdad will have a field day when he sees this - I've argued for years that teacher assessment is allowed to be accurate for more able children. Why aren't you more questioning of the different system in your LEA - why would you rather come on here and talk about how lovely your school is? I'm sure it is - ceratinly no one said it wasn't - but it doesn't record teacher assessment for level 6 children, and that's not fair.

Emsoboe, how could you listen to a teacher tell you that your ds is a 5a, but is recorded as a 5c so that the Y6 teacher can show progress? Is he taught at a 6c level? It doesn't sound as if he is, is he, if the Y6 teacher needs the help of false data to show he is progressing? Why aren't you cross about that? Why would you rather accept that, and come on here to sneer at someone who talks about the accuracy of teacher assessment and clear progression of learning in other parts of the country? Does it make you feel better?

Oh, Feenie, this really is NOT about my son! My son is very definitely being taught at his level (currently around 6b) - this is reported to me. But this cannot be reported to LA - this is the point I've been trying to make. Schools have to show progression, as you well know, and, unfortunately, there are boundaries to upper levels. My son will sit his SATs and hopefully score his 5A. His progress will then be deemed satisfactory - he scored level 3 at KS1. His teacher assessment will (all being well) be a 6. Sadly, this does not give the school opportunity to show good/exceptional progress, other than in internal monitoring. But that will be great for me and him and nice for the internal school figures. Secondary schools in this area will take very little notice as they do their own assessments very early in Year 7 - this is very much a national picture (although not exclusively).

I did not come onto this thread as a parent giving advice. I came onto here as someone who knows a fair bit about education and the hoops that schools have to jump through, just to maybe help point out some discrepancies.

I have absolutely no idea what your point is, Emsoboe. Most of your posting is about the predecence placed by central data re Raise Online and test data over teacher assessment. Lord knows why, since no one disagreed with that point before you started.

Then you downplayed the importance of teacher assessment, and got cross when I pointed out that, while not top of the list, actually it does legally have 50% weighting with test results, is inspected by Ofsted and commented extensively on and is monitored by SIPs. All true - but merited only insults about 'arrogance' and 'omissions in knowledge'.

I showed you plenty of evidence that across the country level 6 is reported as a teacher assessment - where is the discrepancy there?

Now you are back tracking wildly and saying *"Oh, Feenie, this really is NOT about my son! My son is very definitely being taught at his level (currently around 6b) - this is reported to me. But this cannot be reported to LA - this is the point I've been trying to make."

Ahem - you talked about your son to make your point in your very first post. You said, "I know that my year 5 son has already scored 5As in all areas (teachers have confirmed this), I have also seen his papers, but he is entered into statistics as having reached 5C in all areas, this allows the school to show progression over Y6."

What are you talking about? What statistics is he entered into as a 5C so the school can show progression? I'm very glad he is taught at a level 6, but you cannot blame anyone reading for thinking that he isn't, given your confused posts. If he is making progress, then why can't his attainment be recorded properly, wherever it is recorded? And if you don't wish your ds to be discussed, then perhaps don't talk about him extensively as an example in your very first post, would be my advice.

Why can't your ds's level 6 teacher assessment be reported to the LEA - is your school like singersgirl's, in that level 6 does not exist?

Feenie, you are excessively rude and aggressive.

Your own posts are littered with contradictions. Read the first two paragraphs on your latest posting as an example.

YOu need to realise that there are plenty of people on MN, myself included, who know at least as much as you do, and probably significantly more, with regards to assessment.

I have tried to find and highlight the points on which we agree, but the continued defensive nature of your posts has turned this into a slanging match which I'm no longer prepared to continue.

Suits me, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about any more. I've explained the statutory obligations of schools regarding assessment, and pointed out that OFSTED and SIPs are very interested in monitoring teacher assessment. I agreed that test data is of prime importance, and then dared to disagree with you on the importance of teacher assessment, using several points of evidence, none of which you can be bothered to address, other than by insulting me.

The only contradictions on this thread are your own, which I've asked you about but which you decline to explain, other than to claim, once again, that I don't know what I'm talking about but that you are an authority. And then you refuse to expand on that either. All very mystifying. And quite boring, now.

It's very interesting that your post of Tue 26-Apr-11 16:02:48 seems to detail a very different position to the one you've posted here. Back then, you were very concerned at the school's assessment situation regarding your ds, and needed some advice.

"I had a thread here a few weeks ago 'Advice Please' which will give you a little background to my sons issues.

We are back at school tomorrow and I will be booking an appointment with his teacher as they have effectively told me there is nothing more they can teach him as he's reached 5A in maths, reading and writing. He is also working off his own back, at home, not school, on extending his science and history knowledge. At present he doesn't do this at school as they don't appear keen to allow him to work differently to the rest of the class- see my other thread.

I have recently read on other threads on here, that children can now be assessed at L6. What does a school need to do in order to achieve this? Where do they find the information? I am more than happy to support the school in extending my son, by providing work, external extension, or whatever they are happy with, but I want to work with them, rather than be the 'pushy' mum.

Thanks

Em"

What can have happened to turn you from your position of concern, given the atrocious advice of his teachers, and your lack of knowledge on teacher assessment, into an apparent expert, who has a thorough and extensive knowledge of the teacher assessment process, in 3 months? I actually posted help for you and your son, as did other posters, and you were very grateful for the signposting of which you were seemingly completely unaware at the time? That's quite a transformation, but perhaps explains the confusion and backtracking in your posts here, Emsoboe.

More here:

"The level 6 thing is purely a tool for me to use to convince the school to try and do a little more with him (effectively allow him to self extend) during the school day. The current argument is always that he's reached the top levels necessary at primary school and they now don't know what to do with him. I don't really care about SATs, it just seems to be one of the few languages that the school seems to understand."

And here:

"Thanks Feenie....Thanks for the info though, it's good to be able to go in armed with some info."

Pardon me, but does that not amount to stalking?

I'll have to ask the opinion of the mods.

Still doesn't contradict the stand point though! do you not have some assessing to do?

My very honest answer is, it is very rare, but really possible, as I know somebody can match this standard or do even better .

Stalking? No. It's an entirely above board use of the search facility, available to anyone. Do feel free to check with MNHQ though - they might also be interested in your apparent meteoric rise from clueless to statistical expert in less than three months.

I have no idea what your stand point is, your posts are thoroughly confused.

All assessment present and correct at this stage in the academic year, thanks for the concern though.

Note to Emsoboe - if you intend to change your standpoint and knowledge base so thoroughly, and pretend to be an expert later on, it's probably best to namechange first. Check that with MNHQ while you're at it.

DD1 has a stupidly high IQ, and is on G&T and has got 4s, ranging from 4c to 4a. Shes is just finishing year 3, and her teacher said shes on target to be a level 6 before she leaves.
TBH they all work hand, they all have their strengths and I havent told anyone (other than my sister) because tbh while Im very proud of how clever she is, Im more intrested in her being a child. Plently of time for learning later imo

FEENIE - who and what I am is not relevant! You expect us to believe who and what you are, even though your knowledge appears to be at least a couple of years out of date.

The level 6 thread was a red herring thread. I've known for a long time that level 6 can be teacher assessed. Don't ask my reasons for that, but it certainly isn't the first info trawling thread to be on MN and it won't be the last.

Actually, I regularly name change, and deliberately haven't in my last few threads, which if you trace back and you have any intuition, you may recognise an interesting theme. Perhaps there's a reason for that?

Please leave it now.

Show me where my knowledge is out of date please - or perhaps, don't bother. Red herring threads? Please. Your credibility is shot to pieces.

Thread here for anyone who can be bothered.

It's not possible to forget to namechange in between red herring threads and expect anyone to engage with you. And if you intend to insult posters who have actually helped you while you're at it, then expect them to get narky and check your posting history.

Best namechange again now then - no one will believe a single word you say under this username from now on.

Outrageous!

I CHOSE NOT TO CHANGE MY NAME - is that clear enough for you!

You really have riled me - well done - no ones been able to do that for a long time.

Keep digging yourself a lovely hole Feenie, it'll save me having to send you a spade!

You aggressively attack so many posters, which is a shame as you do sometimes offer good and sound advice, and have clearly read some of the relevant documentation.

Yes, outrageous that you:
a) ask for help as a clueless Mum who needs help
b) are given it by several posters, taking you at your word
c) post using the standpoint of an expert, and insult a poster who gave you help freely - NEVER EVER substantiating your insults, even when asked repeatedly, only offering more.
d)chuck your rattle out when you are discovered.

Outrageous. And also quite funny.

My DS has scored a 5A at the end of year 3, 4 and 5, the school does not assess above that level.

I know that in reality he works ahead of this level with his teachers help and as part of the G&T programme.

As he is clearly doing exceptionally well I don't need the validation of a level 6 or above.

Quick question - if a child is working 'on target' throughout primary/lower secondary school (i.e. 2b year 2, 4b year 6, level 5 year 9), what are they expected to achieve at GCSE?

Henrythehappyhelicopter why doesn't the school assess higher levels? (agree it's pretty worthless)

Emsoboe either you are a "clueless" parent pretending to be an expert and giving false information to a genuine query or you are an "expert" pretending to be ignorant and asking for help... in either case you are acting very deceitfully!

You expect us to believe who and what you are, even though your knowledge appears to be at least a couple of years out of date.

The level 6 information I kindly gave you on the other thread regarding the tasks is brand new for 2011, Emsoboe.

Feel free to check my long posting history on MN, and my longer history on TES under the same username - but all with the same persona, unlike yours.

Checking someone's posting history is definitely allowed on MN - you could find that posing as different people on different threads, however, may not be.

Good for you Feenie!!!

Have just read this entire thread and can't believe some of the crap Emsoboe has come out with! I think she should bow out gracefully now.

Either that or just piss right off!!!!

Sorry, I have nothing relevant or knowledgeable to add to this thread, just felt i had to say that

:)

Thanks, Poppyella, much appreciated.