What's the highest of those stupid grade things that you can get in Y3?

[dinglydell]

I don't know if dd is at school with total geniuses but is it possible to get a 5c at the end of Y3 and would it be common for many kids to get a 4a in everything? Or do I know some mums who are slightly stretching the truth or maybe, like me, confused by it all?

But some LA's don't report or moderate teacher assessment beyond Level 5. Certainly ours doesn't (I checked in a recent meeting with our SIP, after all these absolutely certain threads on Mumsnet). I specifically asked if there was provision to assess/report at Level 6 and told that there wasn't.

Dear Mr Gove,

Please get rid of "those stupid grade things"

Love From,

All the sensible people xxx

ARA document 2011 refers to assessing KS2 pupils at level 6. It's a legal document. God knows why your SIP/LEA are lying!

Levels do not equate to breadth of knowledge.

A child being able to answer a KS2 SATs paper doe not mean that he or she is equal to a Y6 child. A Y6 child has more experience of the world AND has matured in the process of this experience.

But solid teacher assessment does. Which is what it would have to be at KS1.

I agree. It's got to go to teacher assessment in Y6 to get a homogenous measure across KS1/2/3. (Notwithstanding the extortionate cost of extremely poor quality KS2 marking.)

My question here is how all this equates to KS4.

(Notwithstanding the extortionate cost of extremely poor quality KS2 marking.)

Totally. Still reeling from the shock of having our frist decent marker ever, amazing . So ridiculous that so much rests on one poorly paid persons' judgement.

Feenie, they're not lying. They're saying that they don't do it. They're not saying that no LAs do it or that it's impossible - they are saying that they don't record teacher assessment above Level 5 for KS2. That document you linked to may not be the one you meant to link to - Level 6 isn't mentioned anywhere and there is one paragraph about how a school can use (not 'must use') optional tasks above the level of the tests to inform teacher assessment. It certainly doesn't say "Local authorities have a legal obligation to assess above a Level 5 in KS2 if appropriate". It's a bit like GCSEs, surely? Someone can be working above a level of a GCSE but they still only get an A*.

Though I realise that you may not have any regard for OFSTED ratings, the LA is rated Excellent (4) and the school Outstanding.

It states in paragraph 4.2:
"Pupils working above or below the levels covered by the tests
QCDA has produced a suite of optional tasks covering levels above and below the test levels. The optional tasks provide additional evidence that can contribute to teachers? assessment of their pupils. Optional tasks for pupils working above or below the level of the tests are available at www.mycurriculum.com."

The tests cover levels 3-5, but a teacher assesssment is also required in Y6 with 50%/50% equal weighting. The above advice is to help teachers who may have children working at level 2 or level 6. It's a statutory document which schools and LEAs have to adhere to - they shouldn't get to choose which bits they like. So if the schools/LEA have children working above level 5, they should be using the tasks to provide evidence to level those children.

Later on in the document, in Reporting and using pupils? results,
where the document refers to submitting teacher assessment data, it also states:
"Teacher assessment codes:

1?6 Curriculum level achieved (etc)."

I'd like to know how an entire authority can pretend that a level 6 child just doesn't exist at KS2in their LEA! What do they teach a 5a child in Y6? Do they secretly teach level 6 but only record it at school level - making a total mockery of the process of teacher assessment? How do they measure any progress? It's baffling!

In fact, I honestly don't believe it's possible to do this. I think your SIP was just plain wrong. It goes against everything teacher assessment stands for - putting a false ceiling on assessment and learning. And you couldn't possibly receive an excellent rating for failing to assess gifted and talented children properly. It's got to be the SIP. Teachers would be up in arms about this if it existed anywhere.

Levels go up to level 8a and then, after that, exceptional level. They might not teach that high, or assess that high, but in theory levels are entirely transferrable so there is no upper limit at any key stage. The level 3 they talk about a primary school is exActly the same level 3 at secondary

Ditto, as people have said, level 6

singersgirl they can't say they don't do it or they are breaking the law ...

PotteringAlong is correct, in theory there isn't a limit to the level a child can achieve at any stage.

Yes.

BusterGut you asked how this relates to KS4 ... interestingly last week we had a group of secondary heads and staff visit and they were shocked at what we teach in primary. Without exception they said they have been teaching Y7 pupils things that they are taught in lower KS2 because they didn't realise it was taught earlier so it isn't surprising to hear ex pupils say they learnt nothing new until GCSEs

I always think it;s interesting that people go on about how they despise SATS, and wish they didn't hsve to do them, and send their kids to private school to avoid them - until all of a sudden they don't think their child is gettng a high enough mark. Then they suddenly get all interested!

Just saying.

The fact that a school may not test above a certain level doesn't mean they can't teach above a certain level. Dd had a lovely maths teacher in Yr 6 who did all sorts of maths problems with the top set- nothing to do with the SATS levels, but it certainly did stretch them (I even spent a Xmas holiday trying to do them myself because they were such fun!). In the same way, they did whatever SATS prescribe for reading- but they also had an interesting time reading Macbeth in class.

I didn't care if it stretched dd two sublevels or whatever: it inspired a love of Elizabethan drama in her that has led to her reading everything she can get hold of. And the maths made her think; I didn't need any sublevels to see that was a good thing.

Y4 DS1 is teacher assessed as being level 6A in Maths, and level 5C in English. HTH.

Thanks for all the interest in my slightly dumb question. It's obviously even more complicated than I thought!

It's not really complicated.

They are there so that the school can check that it is 'adding value"

If your child is happy, and appears to know more than they did this time last year, that's really all that's important.

We didn't get sublevels on dd's report this year (year 9). Perhaps I should kick up a stink.

Well, in a strange twist to the end of this tale, I happened to see the class assessment lists as at parents' evening, the teacher had them up on the computer and it turns out that nobody got a 5 for anything, there were a couple of 4a's and a few more 4bs and a gigantic list of 3b's and 3c's. So either the mums I was mentioning were more confused than me or they did a bit of grade inflation! :)

...sounds suspiciously like a fisherman's tale of the one that got away eh?