Parents becoming teachers? Is it me or has Gove totally lost it?

[sogrownup]

How do you feel about going into school to cover for a teacher who is on strike? Is there anyone out there who believes that this is a sound idea.... I think it's madness!!

Mrz, I know plenty of parents who have expressed to me their annoyance with strike, but who probably have not said anything to the teachers. In fact, I have not said anything to the teachers so they may well think I suppport them.

I do seem to have a lot more company in real life than on here.

In private industry, you would have new contracts handed out, people would grumble, no one would strike, and you would either sign the contract or be shown the door.

I wouldn't say anything to a teacher about her striking, especially not if she was involved in looking after my children next week or next term. but even if she wasn't, i wouldn't say anything because it would be rude. However I do think that (some) teachers need to wake up and smell the coffee on this issue

And would that be a good t hing, strix?

On the contrary Strix parents have talked about the strike but only in an understanding and supportive manner

I've worked in private industry and anyone who was shown the door in those circumstances would have ample grounds for an unfair dismissal claim

Strix don't think the public sector isn't immune to the same treatment. The sign new contracts with worse conditions or your sacked has just been given to almost all workers (other than teachers who have nationally agreed conditions) in the council I work for. The unions are negotiating, and will strike if not resolved. If you had collective bargining tools in this situation are you seriously saying you wouldn't use them?

mrz unfortunatley it is perfectly legal to do this. DP works in employment law and has confirmed it. And yes I think it is completely outrageous.

Interesting hockeyforjockeys as my friend also an employment lawyer says it isn't.

Ok I think this might be a situation where the devil is in the detail of how the change in contract actually occurs. I went home completely outraged at the news of changes to TAs conditions, and was told by DP that they were completely entitled to do this, and he infact was involved in a similar case.

Well, I spoke recently to a teacher who taught me when I was at school. He must be in his late 50's, early 60's by now, and taught me around 25 years ago - so has been teaching a long time.

The proposed changes will mean he has an effective pay loss of £100 a month, has to work an extra 3 years and (assuming he lives for 25 years of retirement) will lose £100,000 from his overall pension.

I just think it is so unfair to change the pension deal when he has been paying into it for so long.

Strix, I do find it irritating when people refer to "private industry" as though everyone working in the sector thinks and feels the same way and is treated the same way (and indeed when people refer to the "public sector" as though the people working in it are all clones). For a start, there are people working in private industry who are members of unions and would and could strike if they believed they were being mistreated or lied to, or having the truth held back from them; others may well wish they were members of unions so that they could do more than grumble; others may well be happy to be shown the door rather than accept something they view to be intolerable; others may refuse to accept the new terms of their contract and when dismissed and then re-employed on the new terms or not re-employed at all, take their company to an industrial tribunal (some contractual terms and conditions cannot be changed at a whim by the employer, so it's not true that an employer in private industry could with impunity change absolutely any term of his employee's contract without their consent). People in the private sector do not have a monopoly on "realism," nor are they all so pathetically downtrodden that they would accept anything thrown at them with nothing more than a little grumble. A person's reaction to anything in life is dependent on their personality, strength of feeling and personal circumstances, not just their employer... You seem to want the State to become the lowest common denominator sort of employer which would happily sack people left, right and centre without taking any account of the law. What a peculiar way to want the State to behave on your behalf.

I thought Virgin was a private company? Their pilots are threatening to strike over a 4% pay increase. Haven't heard of them being shown the door.

www.thehrdirector.com/business-news/employment_law/virgin-pilots-vote-for-strike/

I had a meeting tonight. Afterwards, I spoke to one very highly qualified, hugely experienced Educationalist (ex-teacher, now consultant) and one very experienced teacher.

One of them dryly pointed out that, as research shows that after the age of (is it 50ish?) every year of teaching correlates to a year off length of life, the Government is wise to choose 68 as future retirement age. Because by then most teachers will be dying off from the stress anyway, so no pension pay-outs will be necessary.
The other one, more restrained, simply concluded this was another of the Governments 'not thought through' policies. I'll say

btw, I asked lots of parents at school today. No resentment, a bit of inconvenience, all supporting the teachers. I'm sure there are a few who don't, but they are very quiet...

Actually mrz just remebered that I think the requirement is to have a period of consultation with staff, before requiring them to sign new contracts. How much notice is taken of the consultation is another matter though!

I'm a parent. I support the strike.

I think strix's statement about private sector workers grumbling then accepting is more likely to happen in small companies with bullying bosses than in large multi national businesses hockeyforjockeys

Completely true

I certainly would not send my Ds into school whilst other parents looking after him. He has epilepsy the teachers and his 1:1 have all been trained what to do and how to give his emergency meds and being able to handle him properly as he has a sen statement for a reason. There would be plenty of other parents in our situation it just ridiculous.

In a couple of years we have the majority of academies and free schools so can impose it on the rest without discussion.

Then comes education vouchers so we have a free market on the best education rather than the current market based on the ability to pay!

Wait to be flamed - 'the lefties' will not like the choice that will then operate but they will have no choice (unless they want join Arthur Scargill!)

Good luck to all the teachers, and other government workers, on these rolling strikes they intend to co-ordinate.

Our local teachers seem to have the support of most of the parents, and in a poll today, less than half of those polled oppose the strikes, as I think most people realise these so called 'gold plated pensions' are just a figment of the Murdoch newspapers and government's imagination/propoganda.

My husband's 'private firm pension' is worth much more than my public service pension - although we both worked and paid into the schemes for about the same time.

This government has proved themselves hopeless, in every way, and the only way to bring a swift end to them is by direct action.

Actually, MrZ, that was a true story from my past, when I worked for a very large company (some 40,000 employees). There was a consultation, it was all legal, and that's what happens... whether anyone likes it or not. The issues involved reducing all of the Ts and Cs for all employees. Pensions were reduced. All benefits were reduced to statutory provisions. And, the working week was changed from 37.5 to 40 hours (although we were given a raise proportional to the increase in hours). People were upset. Most stayed. I did. (although resigned a few years later for unrelated reasons)

strix

Could you then have taken your labour to another company and tried to negotiate for different conditions?

we teachers can't

Then I suggest Strix you were lucky to be consulted rather than have it imposed upon you.

Well, consulting is just a PR exercise before people initiate their pre-consultaion plans.

Chibi, I do see your point that teaching is a monopoly and you don't have a free market to utilise.

In the case I described below (or above, depending on your MN preferences), as is often the case, these cuts were made when the industry was down and so there were not a lot of jobs at the competitors either. That is probably one reason why most people stayed.

Oh yes, of course, ReadingMan, education vouchers and academies will really solve the problem of most of the schools in your local area being rubbish or everyone wanting to get their children into the same school. And of course, the system will no longer be based on ability to pay (?!). I shall use my vouchers to get my child a place at Eton. I'm sure they'll pay for the whole kit and kaboodle. It's amazing nobody realised before that academies and vouchers will solve everyone's problems.