Parents becoming teachers? Is it me or has Gove totally lost it?

[sogrownup]

How do you feel about going into school to cover for a teacher who is on strike? Is there anyone out there who believes that this is a sound idea.... I think it's madness!!

Yep rabbitstew helping other working parents does help the government, but people have to work - sometimes "I have kids off school " is just not seen as a valid excuse, not everyone has local family, or friends who don't work and if you work in an area where redundancies outweigh available jobs - you are put between a rock and a hard place.

If these actions are going to take place again and again, then you may find more schools stay open by whatever means possible. Strikes are meant to hurt to get results, but people will only take so much.

Then maybe those who support the teachers should complain to the government for forcing them out on strike, and those who support the government should go into the schools and thereby make it apparent that they don't support the teachers.

Employees take on the risks of pension providers all the time in the real world, with just their own contributions...

Teachers do not have to be part of the TPS. Though, the TPS , with whichever T&C does provide a guaranteed pension - that is not changing.

I do not get where people cannot watch over kids at school - everyone is saying "I won't put my kids in school if there's no teachers" so only the kids who have no other option will be there. It is not going to be 30 kids in each class . It will be kids like the kids of the single mum who can't take a day off without losing her job... Our school has not offered the option, there would probably be about 4 or 5 kids in each class .

Many private sector employers in the real world provide contributions to at least match that of their employees.

As for parents going in to help out with the 4 or 5 kids whose parents have no other option... Unfortunately, any parent offering to help out at a school that hasn't actively asked for their help, been able to be specific about what classes and children are affected and thought through how it could be organised has no idea whatsoever how many children will actually be there, no idea what their levels of behaviour will be like, no idea what the atmosphere towards them will be like in the school, no idea what facilities will be provided to them, might not even have any idea where the toilets are or what to do if a child says they want to go to them (if they are the only parent there... let the child go and hope it comes back? who to tell if they don't? whether they can go into the staffroom for a drink? etc). No way on such short notice would any sensible parent just blithely volunteer to babysit an unknown number of children in an unspecified location or locations in a school without any signs of the school having tried to organise it for them. And I would worry about unknown faces going about the school if no-one was co-ordinating the whole day properly. And what happens if a child, eg, deliberately starts the fire alarm?

Maybe, if the government wants to help hard working parents with unreasonable employers, it should try to be a bit more co-ordinated itself in its response?

Trouble is, you see, we are sitting on opposite sides of this fence.....

I have 2 kids at the school I also work at as a midday.... I have to go in, the kids can't. My employer - the school - is doing nothing to help me attend my job because they cannot be seen not to be supporting the teachers. I was told face to face by my immediate boss that :

"the whole idea is to provide maximum disruption to parents and if it doesn't hurt we will not get what we want" apparently my role as a parent is more important to my school than my employment there - except when I can't attend because they are ill of course.

I'm afraid I cannot agree with putting hurdles in the way of your staff - I am responsible for 60kids at lunchtime, but cannot "watch" 2.

I don't believe the schools would take just any parent anyhow - ours has a pool of parents - CRB checked - that it calls on for trips/reading help/art help/ 1to1 maths help/sewing help etc - I am one of these volunteers -- our school probably has 6-8 parents in daily helping out anyhow.

We aren't sitting on opposite sides of the fence. I'm not a teacher. I see no problem in other local businesses getting together to make formal childcare arrangements for staff, to share the pain around a bit and ensure that as many staff as possible can turn up for work, but really don't see how you can expect a school to let volunteers in to help break a one-day strike when that is potentially going to have huge implications for staff relations, and therefore effective management, for years to come. If strikes went on and on, attitudes amongst strikers and those not striking might change, but no sensible school is going to jump in feet first and go out of its way to limit the impact of its own staff's right to strike. Leave that to every other business affected, not the organisations trying to cause the effect in the first place.

and they wonder why people leave the profession after five years. Hmm not exactly rocket science is it

When we've recruited teachers, we've had no problem finding good candidates to choose from. We rarely don't appoint and almost always wish we had more than one vacancy because of the strength of the field.

Teachers maybe leaving the profession but I'd put money on there being more than enough to fill the job vacancies there are and graduates queuing up to enter a secure, compared to the private sector, job.

That isn't me just saying this. We are only just coming out of a recession with a large bank of intelligent individuals looking for work. All of our jobs would be grabbed quickly if we were to leave. None of us is indispensible.

Kez- do you seriously think the government can sack all the striking teachers and start again? Teaching experience is worth more than any number of 'intelligent' unemployed 'individuals looking for work'.

Sigh. These right wingers really need a dose of the realism and common sense they bang on about.

Back to the question from the OP. Not only am I not going in, as a parent, but I can't see others are either as both local schools to me are closing tomorrow.

Luckily both my children have revising to do - one music practice for a summer music grade exam and the other Maths to get him up to the level he should be at (just had a poor progress test), so there will be a little bit of home-ed going on. They'll go out with their mates in the afternoon. Thursday won't be wasted.

i've said before that i never use the word cunt, except about public figures. this seems like a prime opportunity.

michael gove, for example, is a cunt.

i think we should all keep an eagle eye out for the fall-out from 30th June. If any kids come to harm whilst being 'looked after' by these unqualified usurpers you can bet it won't be reported anywhere except possibly a small column in the Graun or Indie. Let's make sure we pick up on it and don't let the story sink, which is what Gove will no doubt advise the editors of our 'free' press to do!

When we've all rolled over (private and public sectors) to have our tummies tickled ripped open by this government and look back with hindsight, how much whining will there be about how those nasty, naughty Tories destroyed everyone's pensions and, wringing our hands, bemoan that nobody stood up for themselves ?

Kez your school is lucky if that is the case. We seriously struggle to recruit good quality candidates, and have had to use temporary contracts as a way of having somebody to take the class. We have had better luck this year, but all have been NQTs who will always require additional support (not least for the extra release time) We also have a lot of overseas staff (who are generally brilliant btw) but I have heard they are tightening up on visas so this might dry up. A lot of it is to do with the area - we are in London in a fairly tough part of time that is quite far from the centre and 20 mins from the tube.

allegrageller

Of course they won't sack teachers for striking. The should not and, I believe, they cannot, the strike is legal isn't it?

Flickor just said that people are leaving the profession after 5 years. I said they can be replaced - from the bank of teachers already out there looking for work and new graduates coming online.

I am sorry, but I have my own business and I have a very realistic view and plenty of common sense. I have to create an opportunity for every dime I earn, so I know how markets work. I also know what talent is out there and unemployed, compared to five years ago. The problem underlying the teaching profession is the lack of realism : they have plenty of intelligence and are not afraid of hard work, but have been protected for years, usually under the LEA banner with union support, and it's realism which is coming hard.

I can understand London as a problem. The incredibly high costs of living there must make other parts of the country seem attractive.

50% of teachers leave the profession within 5 years - not all of those wait until 5 years is up.

That's before any pensions hooh-hah.

So you want a rolling programme of teachers every couple of years the, Kez100? Yep, that will maintain/raise standards alright.

Like I said before, just put in a revolving door.

If that is the statistics, the other 50% stay and your argument for that leading to revolving doors doesn't logically follow.

The question is when the remianing 50% leave and it is often never. It's common when you take on NQs (in any profession) that only half will stay the distance. Of the half that do make it, many remain in teaching for a long time.

My profession has 15 exams to sit (after graduation). During that period many fall by the wayside. However, make it to the finals and year 6, and I would say over 90% then see it through to retirement. It actually leads to a well qualified dedicated workforce, which is what I think teaching is.

"Re CRB checks, just as a point of personal confusion, don't you only need them if you are left alone with the children? If you are never alone with them, its ok not to have one, isn't it? I did ask this question on a recent safeguarding course, could swear the answer was yes/yes

Only people that come into regular contact in the school setting ie more than once a month need to be CRB checked other than that a risk assessment should be carried out, they should also not be left alone with a child or take them to the toilet etc.

If that is the statistics, the other 50% stay and your argument for that leading to revolving doors doesn't logically follow.

My point is that those are the statistics now - before the pensions crisis. Imo, it can only get worse.

I don't know what your profession is, Kez100, but if 50% leave then it's also a worrying state of affairs.

What is a pensions crisis to you (where you have expected a final salary pension) might actually be seen as a reasonable pension opportunity for a future NQT.

That won't be the case if pensions are stopped but if they become, say, career average payable fom 65 then that may actually be attractive for a graduate - because they will be entering a very different workplace environment with lower pension expectations.

The question is, what quality new blood is out there? In a recession, quite a lot.

Public work is not profit making. It doesn't make money but simply relies on taxes etc.

If we looked at the finance of public work in the same way that we do our household finance, we might get it. Ergo, if we can't afford it, we don't have it.

I wonder why we can't campaign to get rid of other ill afforded expenditure in such a ferocious fashion. Like campaigning to reduce foreign aid and our membership of the european 'club'.

It's a pity that none of us has the solution to our debt problems.

Anyone got a solution?

That's 50% in the first five years. I dont think it worrying at all. It means those that thought it sounded a great career opportunity while they were studying, say, a history of art degree (other degrees are available), actually found work hard or the job not what they had expected when they read the glossy brochures and never really made the grade.

Our exams weedle many out. They just don't pass because they are very difficult and require dedication. Lots of graduates either don't have the ability or, more often, the dedication to put the work into qualifying (while working at the same time). I am sure being an NQT is equally as demanding.

I would do it. And I don't see it as letting teachers down, or not supporting them. I see it as not letting the children down, as they are the future. I think any reasonable teacher would understand this too.

We can side with them, but life has to go on.