DD will be only Reception Year child at the school

[evolucy7]

I have posted this in AIBU too by the way, but now thought that there may be teachers or others here who may not look in AIBU as much as here

My 2 DDs (5 year old in Reception, 4 year old in Nursery class) are at a small independent school, I have been very happy with this for the 5 year old but I am now concerned about the 4 year old entering Reception in September. I have just found out that she is going to be the only Reception year child, I knew there wouldn't be many and had already spoken to the school about this.

They have mixed classes, this year Reception has been with Yr1, but in September they have said that they are reverting back to Nursery and Reception together. It depends on how many children they have in each year which classes they mix.

I have major concerns about this.

My 4 year old already works at Reception level, and the school have acknowledged this, they said that she was more than capable of working in a mixed Yr1/Yr2 class in September which is what I wanted really rather than being in a class where 80% or so were Nursery children and the other 20% Reception. I feel that the dynamics of a class like that are wrong, particularly if a child is capable of working at a higher than expected level. And also from the point of view of maturity, some of the just turned 3 year olds that started after Easter seem quite babylike and with the mass of the class being much younger the class feels 'wrong' for what I want to be paying for. Anyway I was talked into it being ok and assured that work would be differentiated for her, I still had my reservations though.

Now with the latest news I don't want her as the only Reception child in a class with just Nursery children, I would like her in the Yr1/Yr2 class. She knows all these children well and they are friends, earlier in the year Reception did do some stuff with Nursery, and they do PE together etc. It seems a case of her either being with the year younger or older, and I think older is best. Then there is the question of what happens at Yr 5/6. I could take both girls to a different school now but where at this late stage, and actually I am happy with the school for DD1.

AIBU?

I really am interested in hearing different viewpoints, I want to see if there is something I am not considering here.

Where I live you can start your child a year early or a year late at school so my dd us in a class with 6, 7 and 8 year olds.

My friend started her son early and although he is in the top literacy group he does struggle socially and she regrets it now. Sending him early.

You have made up your mind I think op so you should crack on.

I worked in a small independent school once as a reception teacher. I wanted to shake the parents and tell them to run for the hills. Yes, there were hooped caps and ballet lessons but frankly it was rubbish. I think it has clouded my vision on the private system.

I'd move her to a different school. You have to question why the school isn't attracting more pupils. Saying the school is just small isn't really an eduicationally viable reason.

You've got to question the tiny size classes. Socially I think this is far too small.

Mixing with nursery kids rings alarm bells with me.

teacher I am happy with the fact that the school is small. It is financially viable heavily church funded.

Both DDs already go to tap and ballet lessons, and are a part of the dancing school's community. They have been to 2 dance competitions this year, will be in the summer show, and the whole family will be going to the annual summer BBQ in a few weeks time. They both have swimming lessons out of school as well, DD1 is desperate to join the swimming club when she is old enough, DD2 has not shown the same interest but she may do when she is old enough or equally she may not. So yes they have a good social circle outside of school.

I see your point about being in the same year as her sister but a year younger. Obviously even if she stays in her correct year, she will spend every other year in a class with her sister anyway without any others in the same school year. It is not ideal, but I guess I am trying to weigh up the pros and cons. If I moved them elsewhere, the closest school is a small village school anyway with mixed classes, so they would still end up together, and I can't make my mind up what I think about the school. Obviously there are other schools but it is late in the day for this September and I need to get 2 into Reception and Yr1.

I feel that I need to try and sort it where they are at least for this year, maybe with a view to having more time to look for next year if it doesn't seem to work.

Can I just ask:

Are you suggesting that she stays in her right year (ie Reception) but is taught in the Year 1 / 2 class so it becomes a R/1/2 class?

Or that she is 'moved up' permanently and becomes a 'Year 1', moving up through the school with that year?

If the former, then obviously this problem will arise every time she is the 'top' age group in a class (ie when she becomes a Year 2, and is the only Year 2, does she go up into the Year 3/4 class or stay with the Year 1s?) This is supposing there are any year 1s - how many are in the Nursery class next year? How many will stay on into Reception? You may not baulk at 1 in a year group, but other parents may well, and will move their children to avoid this happening.

If the latter, you have to enquire what will happen when she is in Year 6. Will she repeat a year? Will her secondary school accept her a year early?

As for the effects of being in a tiny school, which schools do children from this school go on to after year 6? Can you ask them for their opinions of how children from your school fare after transfer? I only ask because I did a teaching practice in a tiny state school, PAN 6, total number in the school under 40. There was deep consultation with the high school they transferred to after year 6 because of the high proportion who 'vanished without trace' and failed to cope in the big high school - I know that they started doing all kinds of 'Year 6 together' events with other local schools to try to reduce this.

In your position, I would start looking at all the alternatives, even if you then decide this school really is the best option. I have had the same experience as a previous poster - of poor educational standards in these tiny private schools (girl transferred into a class I was teaching in the middle of Year 2. Her private school assessed her as 'achieving above average for her age'. She went straight into our bottom, SEN group, and was given daily intervention sessions to address huge gaps in her knowledge and understanding). A class of 13 taught by a poor teacher with out-of-date methods may well make much less progress than a class of 30 taught by a vibrant teacher with excellent up-to-date knowledge and approaches and supported by a well-trained TA. Small numbers per class definitely don't always translate into great progress.

I would therefore use your tours of other schools to examine the work being produced (ask to see some books if you can) and compare it with the work being done in the same year at your current school. If you do decide that the best option is still the current school, then at least you will do so armed with the best possible knowledge of alternatives.

OP I can understand your concerns about the way classes are being mixed and the impact it will have your DDs academic and social development. I can also see the school's logic behind it though. Both Nursery and Reception work to the EYFS so it makes sense to put them together, and put Y1 and 2 together since they are working at KS1.

I do find it mildly amusing at how some of the posters seem to be shocked at the class sizes and how it might be socially damaging to them. Personally I found it socially damaging to be in a class of 30 of my peers. I still struggle with large groups of people and have always chosen to work in areas where I don't need to interact with large amounts of people. To someone who isn't a social butterfly, and is naturally introverted, large class sizes and schools are a nightmare. OP you know your children best and if you feel they are getting enough social interaction in their current situation then that's fine.

As to the academic side, I would suggest looking at other schools, just to compare standards. However, as long as there are good teachers at the school, they should make sure both your DDs are stretched academically, regardless of which class they are in

Tarenath I'm not suggesting classes of 30 to the OP (as I said my daughter had 10 children in her class which was still too small IME) but a class of 1 isn't a class.

Are the nursery children full time and in uniform ie indistinguishable from the rest of the school? If they are then I would rather she was in with nursery than Y1 so she could start school as her own person rather than x's little sister. I think its fairer on both girls to be separated initially even if they are in the same class later on. It also makes more sense in terms of the EYFS.

Some of the Nursery children will seem young to your dd but also your 4 yo dd will seem young to the almost 7 year olds in year 2 who may be doing Yr3/4 work. Its unlikely in this very tiny private school she is the only child working above her level.

However, my first choice would be a reception class in another school due the the reasons already pointed out.

I wouldn't be happy with this setup for my DS, I really think they learn more from being around lots of people, both adults and the other children. One good teacher is obviously important and if you think the teaching is second to none then go for it but I would worry that the best teachers would rather have a more challenging environment and more children to teach than that.

Is it an alternative type school? Or just in a remote area? Around here a cheap independent school would be massively oversubscribed...and therefore would have bigger classes and become more expensive! I can't work out why other private primaries in your area are more expensive but more people go to them. Why do they not use your school?

sorry but its far too small for me and i would move them both - your DD2 being the only one in Y6 being the main reason why

If I recall rightly from the OPs previous posts the school is "alternative" affiliated to a church group?

The school is a normal primary school, I wouldn't say that it is 'alternative'. The majority of pupils do not attend the church, yes it is sponsored by the church but many schools have religious connections.

There are 2 private primaries, the other is considerably more. If I could afford the other school if I am honest I would probably send them there. I think the majority who can afford the other school pick it, however I know that there are parents at my DDs school who could afford to send their children to the other school but have chosen my DDs school.

I think it is a grey area between a more expensive private school and a state school, in some ways I think that because my DDs is a much more affordable private school it can be seen as a bad thing. IYSWIM.

DD2 has been part time in the Nursery since last September, they all wear the same uniform. They used to always have mixed Nursery/Reception, but this year they had Reception/Yr1 which DD1 is in. So she is already DD1's little sister. They have been in different classes this year, but for some activities some of the 2 classes join together. DD2 has spent time doing phonics etc with the majority of the Reception class while DD1 and another child have worked with the Yr1s.

In the current Yr6 there are 2 girls and I think either 4 or 5 boys. I know that both girls passed 11+ and are going to the girls' grammar school. I don't know about the boys, but I believe the majority usually go to the grammar school. It is certainly not a high pressure private school and there is a range of abilities, but I believe the average is probably average compared to most other good schools.

I am reluctant to spend the money on a full time place for DD2 in the Nursery/Reception class. If they are not prepared to move her up a year permanently and then yes there is the Yr6 issue at the end, I may consider her just staying part time, where Early Years Funding is used and then be able to spend more time finding another school for both of them. It seems a bit late in the year now, and I would want to be really sure about where they went.

As an independent school I really think they ought to be able to be flexible for you, especially as, quite frankly, they're probably desperate to keep you!

Many small schools have R/Y1/Y2 in one class altogether. It seems like a good option to me if she is bright; better than being the only R in the nursery.

She could easily be permanently moved up to being a Y1 if she could cope with academically, especially if you intend to keep her in the private system all through. We have several children at the prep where I work who are either up or down a year group for various reasons. It even happens in the state system sometimes so a state secondary ought to accept it and take her early.

Also - I wouldn't rule out joiners mid year. We have joiners and leavers at the end of every term and sometimes mid term.

Thanks manic I am going to see the head tomorrow and unfortunately will be putting my cards on the table and saying if she doesn't move up permanently I will have to reconsider schools for both DDs.

I too would be concerned at the financial viability of the school. It may be heavoly church funded but for how long with those numbers. A school in the next town has had its church funded and despite an OUTSTANDING OFSTED report was going to have to close with 1 terms notice until a consortium of parents took it over nad are trying to raise numbers.

It is probably easier for the school to keep nursery and reception together as they are both Foundation Stage whereas Year 1 & 2 are Key Stage 1 and it is totally different. I share your concerns though.

The paragraph above should read had its church funding pulled due to declining numbers.

Why are you actually paying for this situation? Even if you put up with it now -is it fair to leave a 10 yr old on their own when the rest have moved on?
I felt disadvantaged because I went to a small (lovely) 3 class village school. When I went to secondary school I found that I had missed out on a school choir, team games etc.

My sister and I went to the same small school and in no way feel disadvantaged.

It is a case of weighing up the pros and cons of alternatives, yes Yr6 may not be ideal if she cannot move on earlier, but is it better than be at an alternative school that may not be better for Reception to Yr5?

What are the upsides to this situation? There must be some, or you would have moved your children - but I can't see them.

I have been happy with the school for DD1 currently in Reception with 7 in the year. She has been stretched and loves school.

But now DD2 will be the only Reception child, that is where my concerns lie. I only found this out on Friday so have not yet had chance to move them to a different school if I decide that is best.

The upsides are that there are studies showing benefits to small class sizes in younger children, and there is no deficit to the older or brighter children in the groups, in the ones i have read. There aren't studies to show personal communication as a whole suffers in an individual attending small class sizes. (which would also dump on home schoolers a bit wouldn't it?). The maximum class size in this country is 18 in Primarschule.

My ds has just had sports day, they have a choir session in other schools, and within 8 months he had developed excellent spoken and written German skills due to the time taken with him, whilst developing his English skills to the required UK level. His concentration would often slip in his large UK class, he'd get bored very quickly being "taught to" all the time as tends to happen with a larger group. He is far more interactive with the teacher now, able to ask more questions if he doesn't understand.

Op without going into too much detail only you know the facilities and advantages the school offers and the dedication of the teaching staff, and how much of a community the school is, and how happy you were there yourself. I would ask the question about the class if it would make her and you more comfortable, but the future of the school? Well, none of us have a crystal ball, and you went there so it must have some history. Has she expressed any thoughts about sharing the class with younger children, or have you not had the conversation with her yet?

binful - there is a bit of a difference between 18 and 1! Or even 18 and 7.

Yes that's the maximum for public school, my ds school has a lower class max. When he started there were 4, now there are 7.

She is currently in the class with the younger children, those in her year are leaving, the others all joined after Easter and I believe a few more join in September. They start at various times as they start once they are 3.

I know that she is bored of 'playing' as she calls it and wants to do more 'homework' like her sister does. On her 2 days at home now she goes and gets out Maths/Writing workbooks to do.

She hasn't said much about being with the younger children, she doesn't know that she would be on her own with them, but she is well aware that she is older, and she understands that she should be more mature. I actually worry that she may be affected by being with just younger children, she does say that some of them cry a lot and misbehave. At 4 she is really developing and maturing and I would hate to see that affected by 3 year olds who can be very different in maturity, if she had no other child her age to feel on a par with. I know some children are more mature at certain ages than others anyway, but I feel she is at the higher end so the impact may be greater.

I am amazed that anyone would actually pay for this situation - when I saw the thread title, I assumed that the OP was marooned on some tiny island or something!

Sorry, OP, but I would have alarm bells ringing like crazy if I were in your situation. I think it's time for you to evaluate the alternatives.

I am glad I'm not the only one magicmummy-my cousin was in a similar situation but they lived way out in the sticks and it was just an unlucky year-but to pay for it?!