No prizes for coming top....

[RepatNikki]

DS is a bright and highly academic child. He's in year 6, and will shortly be moving to senior school.
We moved him at age 7 to a private prep school as he really didn't fit in at his state primary. The school has been great for him - has given him lots to do, keep him busy and really stretched him.

He has maintained an outstanding record of academic, music and drama achievements. I 'm honestly not boasting, but the fact is that he has the highest grades in two musical instruments, in drama awards, and he is consistently an 'A' student in terms of effort/ achievement/ presentation/ homework etc. He's had lead parts in school plays etc.

I know he sounds like a pain, but he's not, honestly, he's friendly, popular, hard-working and reliable. His teachers always get his help woth things, and trust him with tasks and responsibilities etc.

Earlier this year he won scholarships to two of his chosen schools for next year - one of which was the top scholarship offered.

The thing is - he never seems to get any sort of recognition or congratulation for his hard work and achievements . I know schools have to share the rewards around, but it feels as if he is being deliberately discriminated AGAINST!

He had really hoped to be Head Boy or House Captain. It changes every term, and each term he has come home dejected - having not been given any position of responsibility . It's not just me being a proud parent either - I've had numerous of his friends' parents telling me he was such a 'dead cert' for Head Boy. When he wasn't chosen again last term I had FIVE parents ask me why hadn't he been chosen, as they were really surprised/shocked.
Most of the other Head Boys/ Head Girls were all academic/ scholarly types, so it's not as if it's e.g. just the sporty ones that were chosen. Weirdly, the last Head Boy was one of the silly/ disruptive ones, which surprised everyone (but then his Mum DOES help a lot with the PTA... )

Last night he asked me why he has never been rewarded for his hard work, and had he done something wrong? I didn't know what to say, because I fel the same. I just said he should feel good knowing that he has done well, and achieved the best he could. But I can tell that he's disappointed that his isn't one of the names on the boards that fill the school hall...

I just wish I could be a fly on the wall, and find out what conversations happen about these things.

Is there any premise under which I could ask the question about how children are chosen for recognition etc?

Please don't flame me for this (long) post... I know my son is fortunate to be bright etc, but he has also worked so hard to achieve what he has, and I feel that he is rather taken for granted really .

I think that you should praise your DS yourself as you cannot influence the decisions of the school.

When I was 6, I had a sports day at school. I won the 1st race (running) and then won the 2nd race (don't know what) and then I was BANNED from taking any further part in sports day. I remember it to this day because I was mortified not to be allowed to participate in anything else just because I won the first 2 things. I was made to sit and watch the rest of it.

Your son sounds extremely talented in many areas. Some people just have a problem accepting that. You can try and make sure he doesn't feel dejected because of it.

Is the school he is currently in have a senior school as well.

I know in our local private school, the students who gain a place in the local grammar school in Year 6 are discriminated against. Basically they have left so there are no rewards. Two friends with very talented children academically and musically, who for all the other years were awarded various major prizes, suddenly got nothing (or a minor prize) at the end of Year 6.

I had warned one of the friends about this after the other's experience, but she wouldn't believe me until it happened to her daughter. I suppose the school felt they should reward the ones who were staying on, and this is a school run by nuns.

Oh dear - this thread seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent. Perhaps I haven't explained it well enough, or given enough information or background.

I think all DS is really looking for is a bit of public recognition amongst his peers.
Yes, that might seem shallow, yes, as he grows up he will need to learn to rely on his own assessment of what he's done well, and not look for external endorsement etc, but at the moment he's 11, and I understand why he (and I )feel the way he does.

Yes, he has achieved some fantastic results/ exam scores etc etc, but it seems that never has anyone ever congratulated him at school about these things and said 'well done'.That's what I meant about the 'being taken for granted'. It's as if they expect him to do well, so when he does it's not news?
He's sick of seeing the kids who get a football medal get a photo and piece in the school magazine, but his distinction in his latest music exam ignored?
The school were delighted to announce that they'd achieved 12 scholarships, but failed to mention who won them .

DS has obviously (wrongly) assumed that 'his turn might come in the form of recognition as House Captain or Head Boy, and when it hasn't he is disappointed.

OK - now I'm going to sound slightly paranoid, but I do sometimes wonder if the school are deliberately 'playing down' his achievements. I was discussing the fact that they didn't mention the scholarship children by name with another Mum (whose child also got one) and she said she'd heard that they didn't do it because a couple of years ago when they did there was a parent who complained that it 'wasn't fair' that they were making a 'fuss' of the bright kids.

I guess my overall point would be that there is a danger in going too far 'the other way' with this sort of thing. All the poor kid wants is a chance to be publicly told 'you did well' and be given some sort of recognition.

If you come top in the Olympics you get a medal - why not in Maths?

callow - that's really interesting. The school finishes in Year 6, so that theory doesn't work for us HOWEVER if I let myself dwell on conspiracy theories then one thing I noticed if that all the Head Boys/Girls come from families who have been connected with the school a long time - either across generations (i.e. Mum/Dad went there) or at least the kids have attended since nursery.

Ds joined in Year 3, and I did wonder if they have a sense that he's not 'home grown' IYSWIM!

I'm sorry, I know I will be described as unhinged now, but I really can't explain it... it just feels as if something isn't quite right; as if someone is trying to 'keep him down'!

"Public recognition amongst his peers"

Do you mean BY his peers or by the school?

I meant by the school, in front of his peers I guess!

Other than the head boy thing....you say he has had drama awards and gets the lead parts in school plays, and that his teacher choses him to do special tasks/responsibilities.

Are these things not rewards?

Does the school have assemblies or a prize day each year where certificates or awards are given out? Has he never hdany of these at all?

I'd've thought your ds would have learnt sooner that academic achievement is its own reward (in the opinion of schools).

My dd is 7 and knows that the ones who get the stars, stickers, stick insect for the weekend etc etc are the ones on the bottom table or anyone whose behaviour has improved one iota. In fact I think most kids twig this by Year One.

Ds was always top of the class at primary school. Highest SATS English mark in county, apparently. Apart from a few phone calls from the Head telling me of his achievements, he had zero public recognition at school.

It might be a bit galling sometimes, but really it doesn't matter and on the whole it's a good thing as one wouldn't want a child to become bumptious.

There is a maths Olympics for school actually. And when you're good at maths, you're rewarded with an A or an A*.

I think you, personally, need to acknowledge and appreciate all the ways that your DS is rewarded rather than complaining about where he's not. He will be praised at school for doing well and he is rewarded with things like main roles in drama productions, responsibilities in class. You shouldn't dismiss this because the school didn't make a massive public announcement about the scholarship (which is itself a reward for effort) or make him head boy.

As he goes on in life, he'll have to learn that no one gets everything. It'll be a useful lesson for him (and you) as he's unlikely to always be the brightest and the best. Even if he is at senior school, he'll probably encounter peers who are brighter and more talented at university and in the workplace.

Without wanting to sound harsh,you seem to be a Tiger Mother? Have you read the book? You may be interested in tuning into the web chat that's on Mumsnet later on this week?

It seems as if you expect all round excellence which is admirable, but maybe asking too much of your son. I am pretty sure that there are other boys who may shine in different ways - perhaps being natural born leaders or just very empathetic with their peers and perhaps this is why the other boy has been chosen. I am sure it is slightly irksome for the other boys (and for their parents too) if your son achieves every prize going, including being Head Boy. Put yourself in their shoes? If you were being realistic I am sure you would agree.

There are true all-rounders in schools and I can think cases of popular (with pupils and teachers) Head Boys/Girls who are also very clever but the two do not always go together.

Maybe that is something for him to strive for at his next school? But I do think you are either the Head Boy/Girl type or not.

That he needs constant positive strokes for his all his achievements (surely the achievements in themselves are the positive strokes?) suggests that he feels nothing is quite good enough.

As others have said, sounds like he has had a fair share of recognition. In a school its about every child. Every child matters. Your son has been extremely recognised through all these fab achievements.
There will be other kids in the year who are bright but have struggled with confidence throughout their school life and so have never really been put forward or their talents been celebrated and this year really come out of themselves, so the school is recognising this massive achievement for this particular child (an achievement perhaps equal to all your sons achievements) and giving that kid a real push to boost their confidence that bit more.
Or another kid whos dyslexic for example, and has started to really improve and learn how to cope with dyslexia hence making leaps and bounds of progress. this again is an equal achievement to your sons gold medals , leading parts and scholarships.
A child who lost their father to cancer got head girl at my DDs school, she was kind, confident, enthusiastic and an showed incredible strength, in many ways she got the position because she was a fantastic role model and someone who had a lot of admiration for because of what she had dealt. many of achievements were not recorded on certificates or shouted form the rooftop, but anyone who knows her knows she is an incredibly successful, loving girl.

If you were the mum of the no doubt numerous other children in the year would you not be routing for your child just as much, if not more if he had never really had any achievements of recognition.

With the scholarships many schools dont announce them as some families are only able to afford private education with such financial help and dont want it to be known their child is selected.

Half of the issue is the pressure and expectation you put on your son, it seems he has had little taste of failure before, and now he hasnt got something he feel she has to jusitfy this not with that there were other kids who deserve the position more, or will to an equally good job, but that its not fair. The school seem to be very fairly sharing out recognition.

See it as a postive, your son will learn how to react when things arent what he wants, and that he can turn such negatives into positives by the way he deals with it- by being supportive and respectful of the child who has got the position he can achieve being a friendly, kind person.

Your son doesn't need recognition in front of his peers - believe me they already know how high achieving he is - All children of this age know where they fit within a class. Your boy has the approval of his teacher & the reinforcement of the scholarships, what more is necessary. Rewarding for effort rather than achievement is a imo a lot more motivating for all children, perhaps this is what has been happening?

Hear hear Happymum22 - you put it a lot more tactfully than I did but totally agree with your sentiments.

Humility is something we all have to learn and it is a lot easier if one starts in childhood!

Public recognition in front of his peers for coming top? So... that almost equates to; "Do come to the front of assembly Master RepatNikki. Look everyone, this boy is the best" And that makes me very uncomfortable. As others have said your DS has had lots of recognition which has been public, but because he has not been made head boy he's, or you are, feeling hard done by.
You have a lot to feel proud about, but the school has got other pupils to give recognition to as well

Maybe he's a bit of a big-head!!

Agree with previous posters, your son seems to already have had his fair share of acknowledgement. Ultimately your son is just one pupil at the school and should be treated as such. It is important that he learns that he is not always the best and should not always expect to get everything as that is a sure way to ruin any young (and old) person.

Also, as other posters have already pointed out, you don't need to be brilliantly academic to be a good leader, different qualities are involved. So try not to talk down other children. The fact that the head boy had slipped up the week before is neither here nor there in my view. All kids slip up now and then, as do we, as does everybody. Perfection doesn't exist, we can only do our best.

So reward your son for his achievements (although I think that achieving something is a reward in itself intrinsically and hence does not always need external recognition), but also prepare him for disappointments as there no doubt will be many in years to come (given his and your high expectations of him and given how life generally is).

Your DS is obviously bright - his academic achievements speak for themselves.

I'm not trying to inflame here, but I want to ask, do you know for a fact, that he is as perfectly behaved and admired as you believe when he's at school? I only ask as I know several children, (personally and professionally), who seem to have a different personality for their parents and another for their teachers and this comes as a massive shock to some parents.

Alternatively, as others have suggested above, it may be that in light of his high-achiever status, the school want to ensure that his peers have their time in the limelight too. Again, at my school, there is one girl who wins every competition, scores top in every test, is in the local paper every week for some out of school activity or another, and she wasn't made head girl. It went to a quiet, studious, quite shy girl in the hope that it would encourage all of her potential leadership skills - and it's been a huge success, she's bloomed into a confident young woman.

I was always top of the class at Primary school - I can't recall that I ever expected public recognition for it! In fact I probably would have cringed at the mere suggestion. In fact, it had a big downside for me, as I coasted through and subsequently struggled to apply myself when stuff got more "academically" rigorous later on.

I see the same with dd, who is also coming home with top marks. I praise her work, tell her I am proud of her, but also try to teach a little humility and remind her that some of her class mates find the work harder than she does, and that the most important thing is to always do your best. Effort should also be rewarded, not just coming top at everything. Maybe they selected the Head Boy on that basis?

So, your DS:
has maintained an outstanding record of academic, music and drama achievements,
has the highest grades in two musical instruments and drama awards,
is consistently an 'A' student in terms of effort/ achievement/ presentation/ homework etc.
has had lead parts in school plays etc,
he's friendly, popular, hard-working and reliable.His teachers trust him with tasks and responsibilities etc,
he's won scholarships to two of his chosen schools for next year - one of which was the top scholarship offered.

Yet you say he's had no recognition and you feel he's "discriminated against?"
I wonder what the other children (and parents) would think if you son also received the Head Boy or Prefect's badge. I wonder if those parents who asked you about it might either have been fishing for a reaction from you or, possibly missing the point also.

I'm sorry to say this but I think you should count your blessings that your DS has so much going for him and leave this final feather-in-the-cap to some other poor child.

Hi, just read through all this and several things strike me.

Firstly, congratulations on your son'd achievements, he has real justification to be proud.

secondly, I would be really surprised if the school is playing down achievements as these are the 'adverts' they'll use to sign up other parents.

thirdly, people respond to extrinstic and intrinsic praise . I know (believe me I know) that it is a tough lesson to learn but it is, in the end, much more rewarding if he can learn to value his own achievments for himself and not look to others to do it for him. Extrinsic priase is in the end, really quite hollow and short-lived. Instrinsic praise becomes self motivating and leads to genuine future success.

son's

So a young boy who does well academically would like some acknowledgement from his teachers that yes he has done well in the same way that his peers who have worked hard and achieved well at their own levels - not the crime of the century that many of you appear to think it is.

HE'S A CHILD! Of course he would like the teachers to tell him he's done well after all he's not got the years of experience and hindsight that every adult posting here has.

My own ds is a clever boy who finds work easy and is often at the top of the class with very little effort. Therefore, he was most upset when his Yr 5 school report came home with only 2 A's. When he asked his teacher why she told him that although he had better marks than the children who did get A's, the children who had the A grades had worked really hard to achieve their marks and that if ds worked as hard as they did then he too would get A grades in addition to the high scores he already had.

Ds's Yr 6 interim report has had A's across the board - however, if his yr 5 teacher hadn't told him I do not believe this would have been the case even though dh and I had already told him the same thing she had. Being told something from your teacher always rates higher than hearing the same information from your family members.

Op if your ds really wants to know why the other children are getting the prizes / recognition get him to ask his teacher to explain it to him - this way the teacher will be aware that he feels left out and he'll learn a life lesson.

OP, I think I get where you're coming from - your ds has worked hard (or perhaps he hasn't, he just has natural abilities) at his academic work, so he got good grades. No-one at the school has said to him "well done ds on your great grades, you put in the effort and deserved them." Or perhaps they have said it to others publicly but not to him?

He's worked hard at his music and achieved top grades. No-one has remarked on this achievement, even though other children's achievements get put into the school newsletter?

He's shown a natural talent for drama and been given the lead parts in plays accordingly. imo this is a given, prep schools with high achievers don't hand out the lead parts to kids who can't pull off the role. So again he's put in the work, learnt his lines, taken direction, put in the effort. Presumably the audience applauded which is a great reward! But the newsletter didn't say "well done yr 6 for a great play, with excellent performances by ds and x and y and z"? Or it wasn't acknowledged by the headmaster in assembly?

He puts in the time and effort to be responsible, co-operative, helpful. He enjoys helping his teachers. Presumably they say thank you at the time. But at no point does anyone in the school hold him up as an example, as I assume the other Head Boys and House Captains have effectively been held up, and say "this boy is a shining example, he deserves the merit and responsibility of being HB / HC."?

If this is all true, if no-one is ever saying "well done that boy" outside of a private chat - whilst other pupils of all abilities do get this recognition for sporting, musical, academic, dramatic prowess, then YANBU.

Is this honestly the case? are there other bright achieving children who get their mentions? Can you think of others who don't?

I get that the HB/ HC thing rankles but think very very hard about whether you are glossing over all other mentions, pats on the back etc both public and private for your ds and other children as it is easy to find evidence to suit your case when you are convinced about something.

And if you are still utterly certain, then perhaps have a very quiet, rational word with his form master to say that your ds feels a bit crushed that he doesn't seem to be recognised for all that he puts into the school (yes he gets his results, but that's due to his own work, that's not the school recognising his actual effort) and is there a reason.

I know a Mum who has a lovely dd - she's bright, sporty and popular. She gets chosen by the school to represent them, she gets the lead parts in plays....she get recognised so much more that my average but lovely dd.

This very lovely Mum whinges to me that her dd gets overlooked all the time, I was shocked when she said it but she genuinely believes this - I had to check with another friend to see if I was seeing things incorrectly because I could not believe she thought her dd was overlooked while I thought her dd was chosen on the majority of occassions. Perspective is a funny thing.

Repat I will probably get flamed but I agree with you totally. All children like to get praise. If your DS did his music exams through the school then you would expect them to be announced at assembly, along with scholarships, football medals etc I assume you are not talking about a citation just a mention in assembly and a quick clap. Seems totally acceptable to me.
In a perfect world I would agree with the other posters who mention that a good maths mark should be enough, but one we don't live in a perfect world and two judging by some of the other threads on here Mumsnetters often have a different view when it is their child who is not recognised. As for the Head Boy selection, that's just one of those things. Congratulations on the scholarships. You must be very proud of him.