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Original poster

Severe Writing Problems

108 replies

IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 17:00

DD (Year 3) has severe literacy problems (so please, I'm only looking for comments from very experienced teachers or the like)

Her writing is no more than a jumble of letters. School have just given her a scribe on her last assessment because her work can't be read at all. (No physical problems - her handwriting is fine)

She has very recently more or less got the hang of reading and has just been assessed as a 2b on an optional SATs paper. But her writing isn't improving yet (Apparently she's a Level 1 when working unaided).

She does an hour a day of Read, Write, Inc at school (and has been doing so for 3 years). And we obviously read every night at home.

What on earth shall I do with her at home?

AccelRead/AccelWrite?
Word Wasp?
Hornet?
Apples & Pears ?
Nessy ?
??????

What structured programs do you recommend?

Her writing is really bad. I've spent the last 4 years trying to teach her to read. And now the task of trying to teach her to write just seems impossibly daunting :(

Not to mention she's missed all of literacy last year to do RWI, so she needs to be taught absolutely everything :(

I've applied for a statement - but obviously chances are she won't get one.

OP posts:
Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:02

She's been assessed. She's got a dx of dyslexia. Hasn't helped one bit.

OP posts:
Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:04

mrz - you got the first bit right :) I'm not sure what the second bit says :)

OP posts:
ClenchedBottom · 28/05/2011 19:06

Yes I was with mrz on the interpretation - it's not completely random stuff, although as you say some of it isn't phonetically decipherable.

Someone mentioned cursive writing - certainly the DILP programme used by Dyslexia Action promotes a cursive script from the beginning.

bigTillyMint · 28/05/2011 19:08

mrz, that's what I thought tooGrin

Have you got a copy of the dyslexia dx? That should point up what her main difficulties are. A trained dyslexia teacher could work on those areas with her and devise a personalised programme. They wouldn't just work on synthetic phonics, but address the areas she needs support with first.

It really would be better than a TA following a phonics programme - that clearly isn't working.

mrz · 28/05/2011 19:10

She's spelling at a level linked to her reading level (honestly I have seen much worse ) I would try working on correct letter formation for the reversals to help establish the correct orientation.
My first thought is I would correct/focus any words she has spelt correctly in the piece once then incorrectly such as sow/so and those words she spells in different ways wos/wis

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:19

Well the SpLD EP doesn't think there's anything that can be done. He doesn't think that anything can be done to improve her slow processing or her poor memory.

School are doing a memory intervention with her twice a week. And a spelling intervention her twice a week (on the remaining day they do maths with her :) )

I certainly haven't found anything convincing that says that poor memory or slow processing can be improved though memory games...... And when I rang the BDA they were about as helpful as the SpLD team - they were all about me paying them for an EP report so that they could tell me what she would always struggle with.....

I don't know of any dyslexia tutors. There is no BDA or anything close to me. But say I travel to one once a week - there is no way once a week tutoring is going to help her. Absolutely no way.

OP posts:
Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:22

mrz - Do you think I should ask her to do some writing, and then choose one or two words to correct? Every day? Do you think this would be more effective than working through something like hornet?

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letthembe · 28/05/2011 19:27

I agree with the other on the deciphering - definitely readable. Agreeing with mrz (for once). Initial sounds are there. I am wondering if there is an auditory processing issue. Also agree with the joined handwriting, my DS (Y3) has started joining this year and his reversals have vanished and their aren't any capitals in the middle of words.

I also use as many kinesethic (spelling?) approaches as possible when getting children to learn 'tricky' spellings - air writing, writing on sand paper with a wax crayon, using pipe cleaners, large writing, anything that helps the visual memory. mnemonics can also help - said = sally ann is dancing
I also try to make writing as fun and different as possible - not always writing in books, different coloured paper, etc.

ClenchedBottom · 28/05/2011 19:28

Hmm I might go for a combined approach, so a structured programme for spelling, but alongside it pick maybe just 1 key word which would be really useful for her to be able to spell. You don't want to confuse her by having words that don't 'fit' with the content of the spelling programme, but it can be so useful to have a 'target' word to fiddle around with - write in the air, paint it with water on the side of the house, use different colours for the tricky bits, make it out of biscuit dough, watch it rise in the oven and eat it, that sort of thing.

Sorry if that's a grandmother and sucking eggs thing - it's hard without knowing your dd.

letthembe · 28/05/2011 19:29

What is she currently reading? And what is her maths like?

ClenchedBottom · 28/05/2011 19:30

Of course, I mean 1 word at a time, not just 1 word for ever.........

Whatever you decided to do, do remember to revisit words, even when she seems really sure of them.

bigTillyMint · 28/05/2011 19:30

You need to work on learnign the spelling of one or two common words only until she really, really gets them. letthembe's methods are good.

mrz · 28/05/2011 19:35

I'm inclined to believe that a personalised approach is always better than a generic published version (although that isn't to say that published materials aren't useful as resources)
Could she "speed write" give her 5 minutes to write whatever she likes and then look for errors together (if she can see them herself all the better) use a highlighter.

www.dyslexiacentre.co.uk/nessy/guests/guests/bdpfreebie.pdf

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:40

There was an auditory processing issues - which has been cured with auditory integration training.

She is currently reading Sleepovers (by Jaquie Wilson) - with help Grin. Now that her reading has taken off she'd prefer that to the scheme books.

Her maths is poor - but not as poor as her literacy.

School are doing all that multi-sensory learning of spellings with her twice a week. She has been learning the 45 HFW for the last 4 years, and still can't spell them. So I'm not keen on teaching her one word at a time. English is just far too big a language for that Grin

OP posts:
bigTillyMint · 28/05/2011 19:44

45 words is too many.

Like I said, they should focus on 1 or 2 daily. Maybe 10 times a day at different times. She can't cope with lots at once. That is obvious.

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 19:55

Sorry - I mean over the last 4 years they have tried to teach her 45 words. And failed. (The ones that 4 years ago you were meant to know by the end of reception)

But they haven't done it 10 times a day..... And there is no way I can do that at home......

OP posts:
bigTillyMint · 28/05/2011 19:58

OK, maybe 10 times is a bit hopeful! But what I meant was little and very often and in different ways.

It is going to take her a long time, but she will make progress with the right support Smile

foxinsocks · 28/05/2011 20:05

I know it sounds bizarre but does she have music lessons?

I had a real problem with writing and sentence structure - i cannot remember what age it got better at all. I still have to think about the way I spell things and I sometimes get my verb tenses wrong. I was never assessed but I don't think we 'did' assessments when I was a child .

Anyway, what really helped was a combination of music lessons and learning words by association. I know that sounds bizarre and I can't really explain it but today, dd had a sweet called 'thousands'. I could not remember the name but I knew they were a number so called them 'hundreds'. I know some people do that but it's how I learn words in my head - they sit in groups. It's all in my subconscious now but I distinctly remember learning writing that way (sorry not explaining very well).

Does she have a good picture memory? It might be worth finding out. Despite everything, I have a photographic memory for things like buildings and routes/maps - once they figured that out, they could draw like spider maps of words and that helped too.

mrz · 28/05/2011 20:06

I would probably continue with a multi sensory approach.
Pick a word she sometimes spells correctly in a piece of work (but not consistently ) With her non writing hand count the sounds and using the index finger of her writing hand trace the word as many times as you can persuade her to ... write it slow / fast /eyes closed/ eyes open/ write it large/ small
on the table (ask is her finger warm) cool it down by writing it on the fridge door fast /slow/big/small eyes closed/open etc
then write in on paper - if correct leave it
if not repeat once
let her read/play/watch TV
occasionally through the day /evening drop in can you write that word? paper pencil /white board magnetic letters see if it sticks
start the next session with the same word if retained move onto another word check both at the end

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 20:18

Ok, I just asked her to write about Sleepovers - and this is what she wrote:

In seepowrs a grol cood base has a sist own day mum is feding lile ougt lile is spiting ti alt and briying to bawn hr flun waw avig her ran arawb mum was say het your yogt pap in a bady vos

no my sist is not a baby not at ol she 11

(In sleepovers a girl called Daisy has a sister. One day Mum is feeding Lilly yoghurt. Lilly is spitting it out and dribbling it down her front, waving her arms around. Mum was saying 'eat your yoghurt' in a baby voice.

No my sister is not a baby. Not at all. She's 11.)

What shall I do?

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cornsilks · 28/05/2011 20:26

I know I keep banging on about this, but I think that you need a specialist teacher to assess her and then to devise a bespoke learning programme specifically for her and then for that same teacher to deliver that learning programme. That's what I would push for in your shoes based on the info you have given. I know the SPLD team have been in but it seems to have been in more of an advisory capacity and quite woolly rather than direct intervention.

bigTillyMint · 28/05/2011 20:30

Yes, yes, yes cornsilks!

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/05/2011 21:15

There is no specialist teacher in our borough. The SpLD tean doesnt have any teachers. Nor is there a branch of the BDA.

But I really don't think any dyslexia teacher will know more than mrz, maize, maleucca, allchildrenreading, debbiehep, sarahF etc. I have had advice from some of the best people in the world her on MN. And the advice has all been the same synthetic phonics. And their advice was exactly the same as the SpLD teams advice.

The SpLDs team advice was not wooly. It was to continue with Read, Write, Inc. He observed her in her RWI class and said it was all being delivered properly and that DD was engaged etc.

What are the odds of me finding a teacher in RL who is better than the ones on here? Who is better than the SpLD team she has already been seen by?

All the advice I have had is the same. Synthetic phonics. And that is what she is doing. For an hour a day. Why do you think that a dyslexia specialist would do something different? Have you been to one? Did they do something other than phonics?

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cornsilks · 28/05/2011 21:57

Yes a dyslexia specialist would hopefully do something different and would not continue with a programme that clearly wasn't working. 3 years for an hour a day using a programme that didn't work sounds grim. It's not enough for a member of the SPLD team to just observe a couple of lessons to see how it's delivered - there needs to be regular assessment of the child's progress or otherwise. That's what I believe anyway.

frankie3 · 28/05/2011 22:09

I don't think just doing phonics every day will help a child with dyslexia. My DS has a specialist dyslexia tutor every week and I have seen a massive improvement. She does not just do phonics but looks at ways of learning the whole word as well. Just do a google search for your area to find one. My DS's tutor teaches dyslexic children in a local (good) private school during the day.

My younger DS is only 6 but I am sure he has some form of dyslexia too, although I have not yet had him assessed. I think that it is worth picking out some commonly used words and concentrating on them - even one word a week would make a difference to your DD's writing. For example, last week we spent on the word "because". I cut out coloured letters for him to put in order, he wrote the word in large coloured pens etc and then I got him to spell out the word to me in the car on the way to school. It really seems to have worked and even to learn one word like this will help!