Do you pay for music lessons? If so, how enthusiastically do yor dc practice?

[BendyBob]

I am paying for both dc in junior school (yr4) to learn an instrument.

They like the lessons well enough, seem to keep up with whatever the teacher wants, and once in a while there's (quite a basic) little concert which they do. All nice.

But I hardly ever see them practice. If I mention it they have a bit of a go, but I'm wondering what the point of this is really. It's money we could spend elsewhere, and yet they seem to enjoy the little they do.

I don't think we're heading for a career in the Royal Philharmonic (that's ok btw!) and I doubt this will go beyond junior school. But would it be mean to pull the plug or do others have similar fairly low key expectations but do it anyway?

I'm dithering about what to do. At the moment it's just joining my list of 'stuff' to nag about along with do your homework, put your shoes away, tidy your room blah blah

I don't mind funding an interest, even a short lived one if it was done with some passion maybe, but this just jogs along going no-where..

I'm wondering if the demands of learning an instrument at first are so basic that there actually isn't much to actually practice. I'm not at all musical so wouldn't know

We pay £12 a week for my son to have a 20 minute guitar lesson in school. He does about 15 to 20 minutes of practce a day and is nine years old. Like your children he is in year 4. My expectation is that he practices for the same number of hours that it would take me to earn the money to pay for the lessons. He is making good progress. There is a bit of a virtuous circle. He is better than any of his classmates at guitar and this boosts his enthusiam.

I think that quailty of practice is more important than quantitty. A primary school child needs to be supervised to practive effectively. My son responds well to targets. There are ways of making music practice more interesting. For example using Youtube to learn chords or downloading accompanients for the book my son uses "guitarist way"

My mum paid £10 a week for my piano lessons (in the 1980s so a lot of money then). I didn't really enjoy them and practiced as little as possible. I wish she'd taken the hint and stopped the lessons, as I'd never have asked to give up as I didn't want to disappoint her.

I pay about £65 a term for ds guitar lessons (he's y4).

He dose no practice whatsoever.

He has, however, just been entered for his first exam, so he'll have to do a bit of practising now!

ds1 did a year of trumpet lessons in year 3 - he seemed to enjoy them but refused to practice so got nowhere with it, and in the end i stopped them.

(I was extremely musical up until 18, attended a specialist school, and willingly practiced for at least an hour a day even at the age of 5. so my attitude is that i would happily pay for any number of music lessons if any of the dc were actually loving it and actively choosing it)

I think if they are going to commit to lessons (whether paid for or not!) then they need to commit to practising most days. DD1 does piano and singing already, and would like to start clarinet in September, so we've had a discussion about how she would fit the practise in. She's suggested that she'll do one lot in the mornings, which I was quite impressed by - she'd obviously thought about i.

DD1 (8, in Yr 3) does 10 minutes piano a day, straight after dinner, followed ideally by 10 minutes singing, although that tends to be a bit more ad-hoc. Scheduling it in works for us because there's then an expectation that it will happen at a particular time, every day. In practise she doesn't usually do much at the weekends, but does practise most weeknights.

if they are both in year 4 bendy (twins?) and learning the instrument. Maybe get them to practise together and supervise it, 10 minutes should do it. You didn't say what instrument or what level thy are at - how long have they been learning for instance.

If they enjoy it and you are happy with their progress and the teacher is satisfied, maybe it is ok evn if they are not practising much. 10 minutes is do-able though

DS practices before I go to work, and DD practices before she goes to bed.

I help both of them with their practice, and it's always quite short.

I have to ask most days - but not nag.

If they didn't practice I would make them give up.

But then they don't have lessons..... I'm working through 'tune a day' type book with them myself.....

Both my dcs take music lessons which cost £15 each a week - a big dent in our budget tbh.

The deal is that they practise 5 times a week. We usually do this in the morning before school.

I don't go on and on and on about it. If they miss one day I tend to leave it be but if they miss more than that then they do double the next day or have to do some at the weekend.

They usually don't want to get started practising but enjoy it once they do get going - especially when they see they have made progress.

When they are young they need to practise with you - either with you sitting there listening and helping or by teaching you. They take great delight in realising they can do something that you can't do

Now and again I motivate them with charts or treats when they need a boost to their practise eg if you do your 5 slots this week then you can have a lego minifigure, trip to the park, a friend to play etc.

Sometimes it goes well and sometimes it is an uphill struggle but they get an enormous sense of achievement when they have persevered and mastered something.

We had this conversation at the weekend with friends whose son is in the national youth orchestra. Their son plays trombone, Drums, piano and cello with lessons and is self taught on guitar. The only practice they have ever asked him to do is 2 weeks before an exam to practice his scales. They feel he has achieved much more (grade 7 trombone at 13) because it has come from within.
We were interested as DH comes from a very musical family was playing violin and piano and was pressurised into practice and ultimately gave both due to this. He regrets giving up the piano and feels if the pressure had been less he would have continued. Our DD is playing the recorder and we do not ask her to practice. She practices about 4 to 5 times a week for about 10minutes at a time and is progressing well.

There is a difference between encouragement and nagging a child to practice. It is vital that parents take an interest, but this is not the same as coehersion.

There are subtle ways of encouraging practice. For example limiting screen time so that the child has find other ways of amusing him/herself. Playing an instrument yourself often helps. Ie. your child sees that music practise is something that mums or dads do.

It is vital that children CHOOSE which intrument to learn. My son hated violin, but loves guitar.

My parents regularly offered to 'let' me give up piano - as it was clearly not where my talents actually lay (strings), but I stuck at it and managed, eventually, to get to Grade 8. I used to practise piano before school - did that from the age of 6 - and when I took up vioiln, that was after school. I practised almost every day, including weekends - when I was younger my mother always helped - and would play through the accompanyments for my violin music too. I was never 'forced' into practising.

I have just started ds (6) on the piano - we have a violin too but not yet practising that on a regular basis. We will be playing everyday, even if only for 5 mins - but normally I'll be aiming for about 10 mins depending on how its going. I've found a nice book that has an accompanyment for the 'teacher' to play which makes it sound as though he's really playing proper music too.

I think it's like anything though, a few children are naturally gifted and will be able to progress and achieve with a small amount of effort, others (most) needs lots of practise and effort. There is no doubt that if you want to get better at anything you need to practise. A child will very quickly see improvement if they practise and this not only motivates them when learning an instrument but instills discipline and the knowledge that if they work hard generally they will improve and do better leading to a great feeling. My DD is learning an instrument and whilst sometimes she will practise without prompting more often than not I have to ask her to practise. I am not prepared to pay £15 for a half hour lesson each week for this to be the only time she plays. If she wants to give it up that's fine but if she wants to continue she must practise. In answer to the OP there is a lot to practise - have your DCs done their prep test or any grades? For grade one violin for example they need to play 3 pieces, do sight reading, scales and sing. If you only did this once a week for half an hour it would take ages to do with the unwanted side effect of it becoming quite boring because achievement is so slow!

Sight reading is when you put a piece of music that the player has never seen before and, after a quick look through, ask them to play it on whatever instrument they play. Singing comes in in the aural tests - but learning an instrument will probably help out anyway, and its only a very small part of the exam results.

DDs both attend a local music school for 3 hours on a Saturday morning. It costs about £30/month for the two of them and is a bargain. Because they are in groups for everything they want to keep up so do the practice. DD2 also has an individual lesson at school during the week. I cant remember what we pay for that but it really isnt much.

Thak you all so much for your replies (Sorry not got back sooner, had to pop out)

Well yes, they only started last Sept. (They are twins.) We are not at grades or exam stage yet as far as I know.

They chose their instruments, although the choice wasn't limitless. Dd does piano, ds flute. I was surprised ds wanted to do the flute tbh but he's not said he regrets it and they both seem to enjoy it. We have been very lucky in that the instruments are on long term loan, so we didn't have to buy them.

I def do take your point reallytired about there being a difference between nagging and encouraging. That's very true and I may be more guilty of the former than the latter if I'm being honest. I am amazed at how much practising many of your dc are doing. That tells me we should DEF be upping the ante I think!

I do like it when they play me something, however basic; being able to read music really impresses me, cos I have no clue. I think I will try a different tack for a while and try to get more involved in a more positive way. Ie not lump it in with all the other chores, get them to help each other and put a more upbeat spin on it. Maybe agree a time with them to do it, rather than an open ended expectation to get it done 'at some point'.

I think they genuinely enjoy it, but yes, progress is slow because it is only one lesson a week after all. It's pleasant enough, but not an end in itself. They dont seem reluctant to practise, more unmotivated.

This could be a good opportunity to get them to tap into their own sense of achievement; that working at something off your own bat brings results. They will respond to that. Ds works hard independantly at his football and has reaped rewards, so he knows how this works. I think they will get more out of it if they feel they are improving. Because I have never learned music I didn't really know what is required or how to help, but I now have a clearer idea having read your posts.

Thanks again all

Ds1 did years of lessons and never practiced without complaint. He gave up the piano and hasn't touched it since.

When dd asked (she is year three) I talked to her about practice and how hard you have to work in terms of time and commitment to get any good.
When she was still keen I let her chose the instrument she wanted to play so she was already invested in the process.
She really enjoys it. Practices six days a week.
Very proud of her first blister

A blister! Blimey that's some practising there

ds is 9 in year 4, he has private violin & piano lessons weekly & practises for half an hour every weekday, before school. dp does it with him (we have a shed at the end of the garden where all noisy activity takes place - i am v. intolerant!). he just accepts it as part of the morning routine & teachers seem happy with his progress (he's doing grade 2 violin this term). he also does guitar at school & very rarely picks his up at home :grin2:. but will strum away sometimes. as we pay £25/term for that i don't really care.....

As a previous child-who-did-an-instrument-during-school-but-isn't-a-professional-musician I would say that in order for music lessons not to be any more than an unsatisfying (for child) waste of money (for parent) activity, the child needs to practise in the first few years anything from 20 minutes to 30minutes EVERY day, up to one hour or more if he's very keen to improve or taking an exam.

The problem is that music is one of those things that is very boring unless you actually start putting some practice into it. And they won't be able to improve at all (which becomes frustrating for both child and teacher, and motivation drops) if they don't practise much either.

Once a week lessons are standard (until the child becomes proficient and wants to consider making it their career). The point also is that aimless practising doesn't achieve much either - for piano and flute, they need to be practising scales and other exercises (like chords and arpeggios for the piano) that the teacher has instructed, as well as practising the song/piece they are learning to play. About 10-15 minutes for the former and same for the latter is reasonable, although some teachers will tell you that sometimes more time is needed for the exercises if they have to work on their technique (eg before an exam).

While it's not going to stop them getting GCSEs or a job if they don't know an instrument, the reality is that unless they have the same commitment to practice as to homework, you may as well stop spending the money and return the instruments. Children (even when I was little) don't think of music lessons as a treat the way parents do - except maybe the budding Mozarts and Nigel Kennedys - so telling them that you'll stop paying for lessons might make some children think "oh goody, we can spend it on Alton Towers instead?" ....so say you'll spend it at the hairdresser or the spa maybe. If you schedule in some time in the day - either after dinner or before school (if they are up early enough) then they won't be distracted by other chores/hobbies. It really isn't very much. Best to practise after a meal and not when hungry or exhausted, which is not great for concentration.

They will actually get more enjoyment out of it (and hence more motivation) the more they practise. NB it will sound pretty out of tune or discordant at first when novices practise, especially when they are practising correctly and working on their mistakes (but at least be thankful it is not violin or cello!). Don't say "that's awful, can you play Chopsticks instead" because it is not meant to sound melodious until about a month or two before an exam or recital, when they're very familiar with a piece. One of the joys of living with a music student!

It'll be worth it one day when they can play through a waltz, sonata or jig and you suddenly realise it sounds pretty beautiful, and that was worth all the trouble and noise.

I pay for piano lessons for 9y DD. She loves her lessons. However she hates doing her practise. I have to remind her every time and then it is quote half hearted. As a result I am stopping piano lessons in July at the end of the term.

She wants to start singing lessons in September which is fine, but has been told that if she doesn't do her practise then the lessons will stop.

PS - the 5 year old learning might not be expected to do much or practise for long, but at year 4 age (8 or 9), they do need to be practising 20-30minutes just to achieve a satisfactory level of progress for their age. Satisfactory for them. If you want to know what you should be listening out for, there's info/demonstrations you can now hear/see on Youtube and music teacher websites, or tapes/CDs you can buy to hear how scales, arpeggios, trills, etc should be played. I suppose it's no different to making sure a child does his Latin homework even if you didn't take the subject yourself at school. What do you do to make sure they finish their school homework? - apply the same attitude/manner as that, seeing as music lessons are also lessons. Am hoping you don't have to bully or force them to do homework, that is!! ;-)

I do think it is possibly easier if there is a parent who can help them with their practise too though. Neither dh or myself play, nor can we read music. therefore we are unable to help DD at all.