Do you pay for music lessons? If so, how enthusiastically do yor dc practice?

[BendyBob]

I am paying for both dc in junior school (yr4) to learn an instrument.

They like the lessons well enough, seem to keep up with whatever the teacher wants, and once in a while there's (quite a basic) little concert which they do. All nice.

But I hardly ever see them practice. If I mention it they have a bit of a go, but I'm wondering what the point of this is really. It's money we could spend elsewhere, and yet they seem to enjoy the little they do.

I don't think we're heading for a career in the Royal Philharmonic (that's ok btw!) and I doubt this will go beyond junior school. But would it be mean to pull the plug or do others have similar fairly low key expectations but do it anyway?

I'm dithering about what to do. At the moment it's just joining my list of 'stuff' to nag about along with do your homework, put your shoes away, tidy your room blah blah

I don't mind funding an interest, even a short lived one if it was done with some passion maybe, but this just jogs along going no-where..

I'm wondering if the demands of learning an instrument at first are so basic that there actually isn't much to actually practice. I'm not at all musical so wouldn't know

Southofthethames - you make it sound a real chore. I did certainly up to grade 6, possibly 7 violin on no more than 30 mins a day - and I would never play scales or arpeggios for more than 5 mins of that (same for piano) although I did have 'studies' later on which were more like pieces but got some of the same benefits as the scales/ arpeggios. OK, by then I was also playing in orchestras and Saturday morning music school - but that wasn't 'practise' - that was fun.

I can assure the faint hearted that beginners violin really doesn't have to sound awful. Ds got a violin at 2.5 - and he learned how to make a nice sound rather than awful screach very quickly - we've not got onto more than open strings on it (even though he's had it that long)(because I don't want to push him and he hasn't seemed ready) but he can still make those sound reasonable - it is really important to get children to actually listen to what they're doing and try to make a better sound - and if they do that they can also learn to play in tune (as the violin will naturually play 'in tune' notes better due to harmonics issues).

I think it is important that they get to choose the instrument and not necessarily from the normal classical range. DD1 plays guitar (electric and accoustic) and ukelele, DD2 started playing guitar and violin then dropped guitar so that she could concentrate on the violin. This is what is so great about the music school they attend on Saturdays. There is a very free and easy atmosphere and students are able to change their minds and try a different instrument without being tutted at.

my ds (11) is coming up to his grade 2 on the double bass, he practises 80 mins a week. He doesn't like practising, but he does it, and although I have suggested countless times that maybe he should give it up if he doesn't enjoy practising he won't!

ds2 (8) had his first guitar lesson today, and has very happily done 10 mins practice - not sure how long the uncomplaining will last though!

My approach, fwiw, is regular 10-20 mins as part of morning routine. There's already so much nagging in the morning, that reminding to practice doesn't feel like any extra nagging iyswim. I set an egg timer. Sometimes I hover over and insist on focussed work. Sometimes I let her make up the time however she wants. Today she was improvising variations around one of her pieces. I feel this stops it becoming a chore.

I think it makes a big difference to a young child's willingness to practise if the parent is willing to do it with them - ie sit with them and listen, comment, applaud etc

I never practised a minimum of 30 mins per day as a child , in fact didn't practice daily - but loved the piano, got to Grade 8 by the time I was a teenager, and can still play (for fun only!).
Am reading thread with interest. dd is 7 and has only had about 5 lessons, but interest (and therefore willingness to practice) is waning. I will give it till the end of term, to allow for ups and downs and weeks where she is overwhelmed with homework/school etc. There is no way I want to nag her to play - either she enjoys it, and practices enough (which tbh is probably an average of 5 mins per day - or more less often: this from her teacher, who is a concert pianist and experienced teacher) to see her own progress, or she stops for now.
If she'd been playing for longer, obviously I would expect more practice/commitment. But she is 7, and unsure, and I want her to enjoy not dread it - so it has to 'fit' for her, nothing else.

you need to establish a routine bendy, however you do it IME. I agree with Sarah - realise it might not be possible for you but parental involvement and heavy encouragement is the way to go if you can face it.

Can I ask those whose dc take singing lessons, how they practise at home? Is it scales and do you need to accompany them on the piano? Or is it breathing exercises and so on too?

Can I ask those whose dc take singing lessons, how they practise at home? Is it scales and do you need to accompany them on the piano? Or is it breathing exercises and so on too?

Alo interested int his as DD hopes to sart in September. She does informal lessons through drama now, but her practise is mainly just for shows and just involves her singing set songs, nothing more. I am assuming lessons will mean something more formal. I really hope it doesn't require anyone to accompany her musically as there is no way DH or myself could do that.

DS (Year 5) and DD (Year 3) both learn clarinet at school (v. cheap compared with most here, we are obviously very lucky).

The deal is that they are expected to practise 4x per week (it's hard to make it more because DS plays a LOT of sport - was 4 evenings a week + 2 days at the weekend, now down to a more manageable twice a week and one day at the weekend - and DD does a LOT of dancing - 5-6 hours of lessons per week. They also leave the house every morning at 7.15 to go to a childminder before school because of my work, so no chance for early morning practice).

They can decide when they do it, if they do less I note it in their books for the teacher and they are MORTIFIED. Both are making good progress. DS is about a a year ahead of the child he shares his lesson with (who doesn't practise) after 2 years and 2 terms, DD shares her lesson with other conscientious types but is certainly maintaining the rate of progress DS made at the same point after 2 terms.

Hulababy - ds2 does singing lessons. I play piano, so do accompany him most days. I think it is a big advantage having someone to support in this way, but it's not essential.

The ABRSM singing books come with CDs of accompaniment, for them to practice to. But early on for singing training the important things are the breathing exercises and warm-ups really. Good singing teachers will provide a recording for them to work to.

Recently ds2's singing teacher has wanted him to practice sight reading. So he's provided a score of music, then we've just put it on youtube for ds2 to sing along to with a choir.

I think with serious singing, regular singing in a good choir is as important as practice. ds2 practices piano daily (10-30 mins depending on his mood), but singing sometimes just 3-4 times a week, depending on what he's working towards. But he does generally have choir rehearsals (2 different ones) 4 times a week as well, plus extra rehearsals and concerts, etc.

5 - 10 minutes every day before school while I finish making packed lunches.

Ha! Just thought of you Hula.
ds2 is learning atm. His singing teacher has asked him to do some practise/note-learning this week and has leant me the score. It's a nightmare to try and fathom it out.

I think he'll cope better without me than with me on this one!

(Deep breath, Got slammed last time I admitted this...)
DD never used to practise. Now make her pay for lessons and she earns the money back by practising. Lessons are cheap, short & in school hours, she can just about afford to pay for them using all birthday/pocket/Xmas money.

It works. I'm only asking for 30 min/week per instrument (what her teachers suggested, this is far less than many of you are demanding). She does most of it in the mornings before school.

I lack the energy to nag, or the physical resources to sit with her while she plays (3 other very demanding DC). Her violin teacher is delighted with her progress and said she wished another pupil's parents would adopt the same system.

I honestly think the my approach has helped DD find the self-discipline for something she already wants to do, she/we just needed the right "encouragement" scheme.

DS1 is in Year 3. He has been playing piano (private lessons) for almost 18 months. He practices for 20 minutes every weekday, usually before school, and for 30 minutes each day at weekends. He also has theory homework which takes about 10-15 minutes a week.

Sometimes I have to nag, but most of the time he does it voluntarily. he realises that if he practices he does well in his next lesson and his teacher praises him. So he knows that practising is in his own interests.

Thanks roisin :) I am not sure what DD will make of singing lessons tbh; may be too classic stuff for her in the end. but she wants to give it a go and I figure it can only be ood re confidence, etc. We will see. Like the ida of CDs and You Tube to help.

DS (now Y4) started piano in Y2 and used to practice most evenings - if I turn the TV off/otherwise annoy him he will stomp off and play piano by choice [sneaky] - he did it because he loves it and because his teacher's opinion really matters to him. Now, with an uber-long school day (8am - 6pm), he has a 20 min time slot timetabled in to practice at school (as do most of his friends - standard for anyone having individual lessons) which takes the pressure off me, but he still has copies of all music at home and I stick my oar in periodically to check if he is stuck / drifting.

DD is 4 and has started guitar lessons (her idea, not mine) - I said I would give it a term and see if she made any progress, and otherwise give up for another year. She does seem to be making progress, though, and practices only when threatened with 'no practice, no lessons' - currently very focused on the promise that when her teacher says she can play a tune well enough I will let her take the guitar to school to show her teacher

ragged - good deal, BTW - I will try that next time DS's enthusiasm wanes, if it does (except that I would have to up his pocket money a lot to make it even vaguely realistic that he could pay for them himself )

DD1 & DS1 both do guitar lessons at school (£165) a term. They are both progressing well with only 30-40 mins practice a week. DS2 plays the clarinet, he started 18 months ago when we lived abroad, here I haven't managed to find him a teacher (have been inundated with comments of 7 year olds don't play the clarinet would he like to play the recorder) so now his lessons are free as I have learnt to play the clarinet too, then once I got to the stage he was at we started playing together 2-3 times a week and he loves it, especially as we get to do something together apart from the other 3 siblings. I don't push the practicing and that makes them settle down and do it, they do all like to play together it just gets hard as they are all at diffent levels

DD goes to a sat morning music school - we pay around £250 per term and for that she is learning an instrument, voice, a little musical theory and music/movement; she also has a practice lesson on the instrument once a week for which we pay around £15pw. She practices most days willingly - def didnt at the begninning but now she sees the benefit she is very keen (her group mates were running ahead of her and that is not her style at all)

If she wasnt keen on practising i would probably not want her to continue with the sat lessons as it is expensive and time consuming. Even 10mins a day practice has made a massive difference to her capability. And she would get kicked out anyway!

Some children really don't need to do anywhere near as much as 30mins daily to make good progress. Obviously if they want to be professional soloist they'll need to do hours a day however if they are making good progress on much less, and enjoying it and wanting to continue then why not? The key thing is that they are improving at a reasonable rate (which different people will no doubt define differently) - if they are not then money is wasted.

mistlethrush - didn't mean to scare you, sorry! the first 15 minutes would go really fast. Actually, 30 minutes never seemed enough! It's not about sticking to prescribed times - and of course some people can achieve a lot in just 10 minutes, others need 40. It was just to say that it isn't strict or mean to aim for 30 minutes. OP wanted to know what level of practice to expect, what sort of things to cover.

My neighbours' kids practised violin - it sure didn't sound like anything, er, nice. But we sounded just as bad on the piano, esp when working on the same passage over and over. Some relatives would ask us why we couldn't just play through the piece from start to finish, like a performance. They didn't realise that practice doesn't work like that. Actually, we used to feel sorry for neighbours who didn't have kids learning instruments, as they had to hear all the pieces being "tortured"!! Apart from maybe one week before exams when everything sounded much nicer.

I would agree with the routine. DS practises while I wash up/tidy kitchen after dinner. It makes washing up less dull. He plays the drums so I can monitor his progress from anywhere in the house.

southofthethames - you didn't scare me - I'm qualified to teach and could have played for a living - I just chose to do something different - so I know all about practising - just thought that you might put other people off

It does depend upon age to some extent too - ds is 6 and we're managing about 10 mins per day. However, 10 mins every day is much better than 30 mins twice a week.

When I was doing some teaching it was really frustrating to have the pupils that, if they put their mind to it and did 20 - 30 mins a day, would make really good progress - but instead 'got by' on perhaps once or twice a week. Really its a bit like doing sport or somehting - if you do it once a week you do gradually get better, but if you want to really improve you do it more than that. For lots of instruments its muscle recognition too - your body effectively needs to 'get fit' at whatever you're doing, as well as the technical bit of producing the notes in the right place and at the right time....

I started piano lessons at 8-and-a-half. Practice was pretty sporadic for several years (I sometimes did it. I often didn't. My Mum sometimes nagged and said she'd stop my lessons if I didn't do a bit but I never did it every day).

I got a new teacher when I had just turned 14 who was really inspiring and I started to practice every day. Four years later I went to Music College/University and have 2 degrees in music, one focussed on performance.

I am so glad I carried on when I was younger, even though it was quite low-key at the time.

I pay £20 an hour. DD usually plays for about half an hour in the evenings and more during the weekend and school holidays. If your DCs want to progress they will have to put in a bit of practice even if only 10 minutes a day.