Not happy with state school - but where now?

[Hopesprings]

Our DD is in the reception class of a big state school. We are not happy with it and are considering switching her to private. But we are flummoxed as to what sort of private school

We didn't consider private school for her initially because we always thought she was bright enough to do well anywhere. Although young for her year she is confident, very verbal (she corrects mistakes I make when speaking!), was doing sums at age three, toilet trained herself (yes!) and loves reading. (Is that bright? Or not? I'm not sure I know any more!) Anyway, her (small, private) nursery agreed she was bright but warned us she was distractible among large groups of children and might not concentrate well in a big class. We decided to send her to state school anyway as we both did perfectly well in the state system, but we are now regretting it.

She comes home overwhelmed and tired even after two terms. She has fallen to near the bottom of the class in reading and writing and has made no progress at all in maths. I have helped out in the class on a few occasions and I have seen what happens: the teacher's attention is focussed almost exclusively on the "problem" kids while DD drifts around playing or doing nothing. The class practise writing only once a week and because they are teaching expecting them to produce cursive script DD is totally confused - she learned the ball and stick approach in nursery. At parent consultations I am dismayed because the teacher hardly seems to know her (despite the fact that DD is not a shy girl). I have voiced my concerns about her progress but the teacher brushed it off on the basis that she is "doing ok". She defended the lack of writing teaching by saying that the children can "choose to do writing every day during choosing time" - but how likely is this for a sociable girl when there is a dressing-up game she can join in with instead?

So I am, reluctantly, doing the rounds of private schools in the area. But I am confused. Do we send her to one of the small, nurturing-but-not-very-academic ones (and therefore limit her opportunities later on)? Or do we try for a selective school? (there are a number of good ones in our area). It is catch-22 because I am concerned she will automatically fail the selective school assessments because her writing / maths is not up to the standard of the children there. I am, however, sure she will do well once she has the right teaching.

Any views????

I sympathise with you, it must be very frustrating for you to have seen so little progress. Now, I am not saying this to start another state vs. private debate on mumsnet, but have you considered a different state school? Is that an option in your area? I think it would be a blinkered approach to her schooling to dismiss state schools in favour of private, there are good and bad of both and it is unlucky that you are having a bad experience currently. Just a thought.

Agree with lovecheese. Have a look at other state schools too if that is an option for you.

Thanks, lovecheese. Will definitely consider, but I always thought it was really difficult to move state schools (?) (Also, I'm not sure if the other ones around here are any better... it seems that class size / distractibility is a problem for her - wouldn't most state schools classes be a similar size?)

Depends on their PAN (pupil admission numbers); My eldest is in a class of 19 - just a very low birth rate here in that year - and the middle one is in a class of 22, state school, with good TA support. Haven't changed schools personally but don't think the changing process is difficult, just depends on numbers currently in her year.

Actually thinking back to when we were looking into moving here and were looking at schools for DS (now 8), all the "good ones" were heavily oversubscribed (don't know if it's the same now, of course..).

TBH the whole experience is just putting me off the state system for DD (unlike DS who is less bright but has coped ok in state). I would hate to move her to another school and it be no better. I've even thought about tutoring but she is so tired after school and it just seems wrong at her age.

Private isn't necessarily the answer. You can't guarantee she will respond well to being pushed harder. Have you considered homeschooling? If she's so exhausted maybe she's just not physically ready for full time school yet. She's only little and any school is quite demanding.

I'd go and look at all schools private and state that may have places for yr 1.

DD's school just felt right for her and has been a great fit (DD 5 in private reception)

I know private may be more willing to admit out of year. If she is August born perhaphs they may consider her starting in reception? In DD's class is a girl who is technically a school year older - August born.

I think she is still very young.

I think your expectations of her may be too high?

I would wait another year or so (or two).

YearR are basically still toddlers, what's all this anxiety about maths ?!

Have you tried talking to the teacher about this? Or the HT? Your DD will have a different teacher in September and reception is very different to year 1. Things will improve dramatically next year, wherever she is.

As for the tiredness, she'll be tired in private school too.

She's 4. Possibly 5. Give her a break!

Of course she would choose dressing up over writing - and so she should!

I also think your expectations are way too high. Reception is meant to be play-based - in the state system at least - and there is a lot more focus on writing and reading in Y1 ime. My DD was shattered throughout her reception year, got better in y1 and is fine in Y2.

Nursery telling you that she is bright doesn't mean that much, tbh. Doing sums at three is interesting, potty training doesn't necessarily equate to high IQ.

If you are not sure which private school might suit her best, I would stick with the current school and see what happens in Y1. If you have a similar experience with the Y1 teacher in the first term, then I would look at moving her.

Thanks for all the ideas.

Dixiechick, that would be a perfect solution but she's not August born unfortunately.

WobblyWidget, you are right that private may not solve the tiredness issue, and she might not respond to being pushed. But a smaller setting / class might be less overwhelming and therefore tiring. That was certainly the case at her nursery, although the ratio will obviously be greater than that. Homeschooling is an interesting idea but she does like the social side of school (only with girls, admittedly) and I think she'd miss that.

Seeker, I know she is very young for me to be worrying about all this. But I had a similar problem with my DS's writing at the same school, (although he was otherwise ok there) - I let it drift, thought he'd catch up, and it's now a BIG problem in junior school. Plus I think it's more the teacher's attitude than anything that has worried me. She doesn't seem to know DD at all, nor care (and the same can be said of the TA): then again, I can understand it I suppose when they have to deal with a big class with a number of problem children in it...

I think you need to look round all possible schools for year 1 - including the one she is at. There will be differences between EYFS and KS1, and you need to find out what will be changing (even private schools are obliged to follow EYFS).

Even with a big class, state schools vary. My 5 year old is in a class of 30, within an enormous state primary. But by jeff, the teacher runs a tight ship. I am continually impressed at how much dd is learning, within an atmosphere of quiet focus, but also at how much fun she has and how much she enjoys school.

Don't write off the state sector yet. Take another look at ALL your local schools.

CordeliaCatkin, you're right, maybe my expectations are too high. I certainly didn't expect to be worried about all this at reception age. But it's beginning to impact on her mood. She is downcast when she gets her high frequency words "back" because she hasn't passed the test on them week after week and her friends have (it is the school that dictate the children have to be "tested" each week, not me. Whose expectations are those?). She seems to have "gone off" trying to write and I am sure it is because she thinks she isn't good at it any more.

I think in your shoes I would look round other schools, both private and state and get an idea of how easy it would be to move to them. I'd let dd go into year 1 at her current school and see how things change.

When I did the 'rounds' of primary schools for DS there was an outstanding school that said it did minimal numeracy in R as they felt reading was the key to everything else so mainly focused on that to start with. I saw another outstanding school that had virtually no 'academic' activities at all in R, but then was very full on as soon as they hit Y1. (I didn't choose either but that's by the by, just saying that different schools have quite different approaches). How do you think things will change at your school?

Is she actually unhappy at her current school?

x posts with some others!

Thank you for all your input - I am really grateful!

Moomaa and hester, I am so impressed by the schools you have described, I wish there was a quiet, focussed atmosphere where DD is! It is chaos. Chaos would be ok if they didn't expect DD to focus on academics yet. But it seems they do.

Moomaa, from what I have seen, DD is happy in the playground - but is nervous and agitated in the classroom (except when she gets to do dressing up of course)

As a mum with a DD who was similar to yours at nursery I think you as others have said have slightly too high expectations of reception. DD told me she would not wear nappies any more and never looked back (only one accident ever), the nursery staff had completed the maths syllabus for EYFS before she left nursery and she devoured books.
However, despite having been in Nursery 8 to 5pm 5 days a week since 3months of age, then going into a private school with a class of 14 and fulltime TA she found school utterly exhausting and really only began to get over it in the summer term of reception, though still struggled in year 1. In reception she really was nothing special in reception, showed some good maths ability in year 1, but really she has only come into her own in Year 2 where her teacher has described her as having an unusually exceptional ability for maths.
Yes I would go and look at all the options, but have at the back of your mind that some children do take a little while to find their stride at school.

sounds to me like a small girl adjusting to new environment - I'd give it a bit longer before you hoick her out!

If you can easily afford it (and for any other siblings) I just think its a no brainer to send her to a private prep with 16 to a teacher + TA, and I would choose a girls only as it will tend to be quieter (mass generalisation I admit).

If you do move DD to private school, what will you do about your DS? Will you keep your DD in private for secondary, or is the plan to move back to state?

Think it'd be sensible to consider the long-term and fairness to all DCs as well as the current situation.

If it were me and I had the time, I'd have her at home for a bit (use gymbobs, dance etc for socialising). You say she's getting ratty anyway. I would teach her to read myself using a phonics based method (not key words - I didn't think schools had to do phonics now anyway, but maybe I'm wrong).

DD started reception straight from a private nursery in the April (she was 5 in August) and I always thought the ad hoc approach to learning was a waste of time! DD continued to do 'ok' (teachers words not mine) througout years 1 & 2, but increasingly stressed and bored. We moved her into a prep in year 3 & she is now doing very well. In a class of 14 there is nowhere to hide so her attention span and concentration have improved greatly.

I would look for a prep with a wide variety of activites included in the price as these are the things that really help with attention problems & confidence. A late lunch is good also as it helps them through to 5pm finish time after activities. A nicely spread day really helps them learn to pace themselves as they get older.

I do worry that you may not find what you are looking for in years 1&2, as even in the private sector class sizes are much larger than those in years 3-6. Happy looking, and take her with you. It's amazing how calm they look in their surroundings when you find the right one!

Thanks for all these suggestions!

Fiddledee, dozer and pugsandseals, yes we can afford private (certainly for one child) - it was only our vague principles stopping us.

Fiddledee and pugsandseals, I agree totally with what you have said. My gut feeling is that a smaller, calmer, girls-only environment will be just what DD needs. My concern is that she is so behind in the academic stuff that she may not pass the assessment for a prep school (most round our way seem to assess, at least "informally"). Pugsandseals, did you have any problems with that when your DD moved from state to prep??

OP - I don't think your expectations are too high, there is nothing wrong with expecting the best for your child. Don't feel you have to apologise for wanting more for her, just to keep those who loathe independents happy.

Just make sure that whether you choose another state primary or an independent, that you feel your DD will get what you are looking for (lower class numbers, interested teachers and TA's). Visit schools during their working hours to see them in action.

Good luck.