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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

4 year old told by teacher he has to come to school when he is very tired

73 replies

uzan · 12/05/2011 20:21

I kept my son at home as he had a disturbed night and woke clearly tired and not functioning well.My son came home today and informed me that his teacher has told him that he has to come to school when he is tired. I feel uncomfortable now as I as his mum judged him to be unable to cope with the school day. Has anyone here had related difficulties in managing the demands of primary school on their four year old children, and any advice for how to help young four year olds to manage in the same way as their older classmates?

OP posts:
edam · 12/05/2011 20:23

Four year olds don't have to attend school. The law says children have to be in education the term after their fifth birthday, IIRC. So the teacher can put that in her pipe and smoke it! You keep your little boy at home if you, as his mother, judge he's not well enough to go in. He's four, FFS, it's not like he's sitting his GCSEs.

saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 12/05/2011 20:26

He's four? The teacher is a prat. I would disregard her entirely when it comes to judging whether or not he should be at school - it's your call to make.

As to her telling a 4yo that he needs to come to school when his mother has made the decision not to send him Hmm

is she a very new teacher? Or nearing retirement?

itsabiggywhatdoidonow · 12/05/2011 20:29

ignore, you are his mum its your call, if he is not fit for school for any reason that is out of your control dont send him.

did she know the facts of why he was tired?

overthemill · 12/05/2011 20:30

it is very hard to get them to step up to the full time nature of school isnt it? With mine we made sure they had no activities after school for a long while and gave them some very gentle exercise/play while they settled in. No late nights at weekends for ages either. One of ours even fell asleep in his dinner for a couple of weeks! So I sympathise.

You could just see how it goes and remember that while school isnt compulsory at this age (so occasional days out are ok) it is very important for them to settle into a routine and also play with their mates! he will be ok, dont worry

Original poster
uzan · 12/05/2011 20:36

thank you edam, v supportive, it is a worry when the teacher speaks in direct conflict with what the parent has told the child, especially when they are so young and so keen to please the 'grown ups',

OP posts:
overthemill · 12/05/2011 20:46

kids always think teachers know more than parents! annoyingly...

WobblyWidgetOnTheScooper · 12/05/2011 20:53

Well within your rights, as he's 4. You did the right thing IMO - a recovery day is good for him.

Original poster
uzan · 12/05/2011 20:55

Its very helpful hearing from all of you. Its my first time reaching out on mumsnet. Another mum recommended it to me the other day, and thanks to overthemill, I think its the trying to get the balance of attending and letting him rest that I am finding difficult to judge, he had been to his first afterschool park trip the day before and I think that was what may have done it, do find parenting hard, they so often get it in the neck as a result of our mistakes!!! Just as well there are all these wonderful supportive mums out there

OP posts:
edam · 12/05/2011 23:01

Glad it's been useful. Smile Don't worry too much about getting things wrong - you were right about this! And no-one's perfect. Motherhood is a never-ending learning curve because just when you think you've got the little darlings worked out, they grow and change. Just to keep you on your toes...

RoadArt · 13/05/2011 01:59

You know your child best.

From a school point of view, they dont want absent children and they dont want tired children. The teacher was probably trying to get that message across. Its up to parents to ensure their children are fit enough to attend school.

Reality is different. And there are lots of reasons why a child is tired.

If a child is too tired, he/she will not perform well at school and this could also have a detrimental affect on their self esteem. They could end up being shouted at all day, and because they are tired they wont cope well with it, which could make going to school very difficult.

I wouldnt worry or get upset about it, you did the right thing for your child and its better to be shouted at for not being in school, than shouted at all day because they are not listening, focussing, falling asleep, misbehaving etc.

In your circumstances I would have done the same. (In future just say he was sick rather than tired!!!)

ToffeeCoffee · 13/05/2011 10:40

I've kept DS2 (also 4) off school for being tired. He was simply in no fit state to learn, and I didn't want school to become a problem for him. I think I told the school something like 'he seemed to be coming down with a cold'.

He regularly falls asleep when he comes in in the afternoon (takes himself off to bed!). When I explained this to the teacher she seemed very surprised, and admitted she had no idea how tired he was.

I think the balance is for it to be your decision, not his. If you feel guilty, then do some reading or counting with him at home.

You can't make him older and able to cope. You can only try and keep the rest of the week relatively clear and get him to bed at a reasonable time. Many 4 year olds are simply to young to be in school full time.

As others have said, legally he doesn't have to be in school til next term.

DeWe · 13/05/2011 10:56

I wouldn't worry about it. You don't know what the conversation was.
Friend: "Why weren't you at school yesterday?"
Him: "I was a bit tired and mum said I needn't bother going."
Friend: "I'm a bit tired today so I'm not going to come tomorrow."
Teacher: "Oh no, you should come even if you're tired..."
If the teacher really had a problem with you keeping him off then I would expect her to have talked to you.
I'd speak to her and ask what the situation was. She wasn't necessarily saying that in your situation it was the wrong thing to do.

speakercorner · 13/05/2011 11:51

I wouldn't worry and I wouldn't bother talking to the teacher about it. Most reception teachers would be fine with the odd duvet day - and if yours isn't there is no point in highlighting the fact that you are doing them. I would definitely say he was feeling underpar/rundown/coming down with a cold though!

AdelaofBlois · 13/05/2011 11:52

I wouldn't speak to the child directly, but would feel bothered if a parent did this, since it is a rather unilateral way of solving a problem that could be better solved in partnership-you are concerned your child is tired, I could use this to understand their behaviour in school better, to make sure they were rested (even my Yr1 room has a quiet corner for the 'sick' to lie in) and even, since you able to provide childcare during the day, to respond by ringing you if I felt the same. An optimal solution is clearly to have your child in school and able to cope better, not periodically taking him off for recovery time. And Reception class teachers should have strategies for handling what is a veyr common problem.

But it is your right to do what you wish at that age, and I wouldn't be critical of or sceptical of your judgement, it's just I think it precludes a better solution. And I think the teacher probably feels the same, or they would be talking to you not your kid.

acebaby · 13/05/2011 12:03

The teacher is wrong on two counts:

  1. extremely over-tired 4yos are better at home than school
  2. she shouldn't have spoken to your DS about this directly. He is no position to decide whether he goes to school or not. That would really have worried my DS at the same age Sad.

I don't know whether you should speak to the teacher or not. I probably wouldn't but then, I'm very averse to confrontation. Next time, tell the teacher that he felt sick or had a low-grade fever. Don't be pressured to send him into school if he isn't fit for it.

naughtymummy · 13/05/2011 12:14

When is your ds 5 ? He must be quite young in the year. When my son was in reception I kept him off to visit gps, go to museums and when family were visiting from abroad. I don't think a few days in reception matter tbh. However if your son is regularly so tired he needs a day off, then perhaps that needs to be explored. If was a one off I would forget about it.

Feenie · 13/05/2011 16:56

I don't think a few days in reception matter tbh

Me neither. After all, they only play. Shall say exact same thing to our Reception teacher when she is planning. Hmm

mrz · 13/05/2011 17:21

I love it when parents (and some teachers - not you Feenie) assume that the younger the child the less their education matters

WobblyWidgetOnTheScooper · 13/05/2011 17:23

They can play at home though :o

dizietsma · 13/05/2011 17:27

What education is realistically possible when a young child is really tired though, mrz?

mrz · 13/05/2011 17:38

They can have a nap at school too WobblyWidgetOnTheScooper Grin and often do towards the end of term.

dizietsma it's to do with attitudes and the message that you can just stay off ... if a child is really under the weather of course they are better at home but you would be amazed at the difference in some children when they are with their friends they suddenly find plenty of energy.

Lonnie · 13/05/2011 19:34

I love it when parents (and some teachers - not you Feenie) assume that the younger the child the less their education matters

the other way to place that would be to say

" I love it when teachers (and some parents - not you [insertname]) assume that the younger the child the less their emotional needs matters."

We all have different ways to view things and it is possible to only see half of a situation and in both examples there that is happening.

I would say that OP likely is taking her sons education very seriously but is also tuned into her sons emotional (and physical) needs hence chose to take him out. Had he however been in year 8 she would have likely said "you need to manage your sleeping a bit better darling and not get so tired but at age 4 you cant expect the child to cope with that.

I am not saying no parent feels like you do but there will certainly also be teachers whom goes under the 2nd comment. good and bad everywhere.

For me I belive I know my child the best and I have at times made the decision to not send him/her to school on days where perhaps they could have managed but I judged their emotional needs were higher than their need for education that day. Providing I do not do this on a weekly basis I do not believe the two a mutually exclusive of one another

Thankfully I am lucky enough to have teachers that accepts that I am capable of making that decision and only supports me when I have made the rare decision to do so. In the case of the OP I think the teacher should have done so I honestly do not think the possible scenario suggested by DeWe is likely to have happened though I accept that it could be a misunderstanding. (just I do not think that particular convo was all that likely )

mrz · 13/05/2011 19:42

Perhaps Lonnie you should have read Feenie's post and then you may have worked out that I wasn't replying to the OP Smile and teachers take young children's emotional development very seriously.

goinggetstough · 13/05/2011 19:45

I'm with Mrz and DeWe. Firstly 4 year olds are often not terribly good at relaying the context of a conversation and this teacher hasn't said this to the parent. If you start school then I believe it is important to be there.

I am NOT saying in this case but I have seen DCs off school as they are tired racing round their gardens all day because they can.... just because they are 4 doesn't mean they can pick and choose when they attend.

Obviously if they are ill though they stay at home otherwise education is a priority and that means being at school.

confuddledDOTcom · 13/05/2011 20:14

I've done it once, surprised TBH I haven't done it more often as my daughter's asthma manifests as "tiredness". The one time was because we were staying at my parents house for awhile and they were called away in the evening to be with my grandma - she lived a couple of hours away and had been taken ill which eventually killed her. Not long after they left my youngest started throwing up, I think she managed 6 times from midnight until about 8am. At 2am we had another session of throwing up and I realised there were three people in my bed (both children). My eldest helped me to sort her sister out, holding the towel for her so my bed didn't get covered etc. I told her to go to bed and she burst into tears thinking she was in trouble or I was rejecting her so I allowed her to stay.

Next morning we were exhausted and the youngest wasn't well enough to take out. I knew with her asthma it wouldn't be good to take her in that state and it would have meant leaving the house about 7:45 to make our way by train and bus to the school. I had planned to take her, although no idea how we would do it, but when she stayed up all night helping me I knew it wasn't a good idea. I called the school and said we'd been awake all night with sickness. I wasn't lying but obviously didn't tell them that it wasn't her being sick.

My daughter shouldn't be in Reception, she was two months premature and ended up going up a school year. I do feel I have to be lenient on her because of it. I think the same is true with your son, he's not much younger than nursery children, much difference in his birthday and he could be going in three days a week and playing.