4 year old told by teacher he has to come to school when he is very tired

[uzan]

I kept my son at home as he had a disturbed night and woke clearly tired and not functioning well.My son came home today and informed me that his teacher has told him that he has to come to school when he is tired. I feel uncomfortable now as I as his mum judged him to be unable to cope with the school day. Has anyone here had related difficulties in managing the demands of primary school on their four year old children, and any advice for how to help young four year olds to manage in the same way as their older classmates?

@Takver

You seem not to understand what a difference planning makes to teaching-a schoolwide policy of gradually introducing pupils to school is one way of accommodating very young learners. It is very different in practice from ad hoc arrangements decided without consultation on the day.

It's also a bit silly in other ways-since children of the same age tire and concentrate differently-so some schools (not mine alas) have more individually focussed means of dealing with this both in terms of total time in school and what they do in school time. There's reams of stuff on it in the observation and lecture notes of any decent trainee, if you're interested, and it's a key decision at school and classroom level.

Tell your son to say to his teacher "I will come to school even if i'm tired the term after I turn 5 because that's the law, I think." Reception is fab and good teachers make an immense difference to the children they teach, especially in giving them a positive start to their school career. However, missing the odd day here and there will not matter a jot, short term or long term.

Funnily enough, Adela, I was coming back on to say that the key point has to be communication between parents and teacher.

Like you said above, otherwise, parents won't know that little Johnny may be tearful over his cornflakes, but is running around happily all day at school - but equally, teachers won't know if Johnny goes home, falls asleep over his tea every night, has started wetting the bed again, cries at every little thing all weekend, and generally is not coping.

My apologies.

hi uzan, my DS is very young in the year and even now in Yr 1 gets really exhausted at times. I think the mental effort of keeping up with the other children in class can be really hard. He is normally a really early bird and loves school so I have no problems getting him in. However 1 day earlier this term he simply didn't wake up until 9 am! I had already phoned the school and said I thought it was likely that he would be in later and why. He finally got into school at 10:30 and was fine. I felt it was best for him to go in late than miss 1/2 the day. I did speak to the teacher when I picked him up. The school knew it was unusual. I do find though that I get very muddled communication from DS when the class have been told things directly and not parents, so I am a pain and always confirm things.

I'm much older than 4 and go home and fall asleep over my tea most nights after a day in school

The other issue that can't be ignored, I think, is funding/targets. Dd's school has had to give up their policy of allowing the 4 y/os to only come part time, because the term after they turn 4, they count as a full timer, and therefore it was messing up their attendance figures. (And similarly, the half day 3 y/os now have to come every day, whereas in the past it was normal for them to start with 3 or 4 days a week.) So a policy which was popular with both parents and teacher has been withdrawn to meet central diktat.

The result is quite a few children not going the nursery year and not startingat the school until they are nearly five, which surely has to be a retrograde step, especially as many (probably the majority in dd's school) don't speak any Welsh before starting.

Obviously you need to speak to the head-teacher, Mrz, and discuss why you're not coping, and ways that you can be supported in school

I trust you haven't also reverted to toddler tantrums . . .

at mrz...me too!

This reinforces my feeling that we send children to school too young. 4 is still just a baby

Takver parents can request part time attendance if their child in under statutory school age and 3 year olds can attend as many sessions as they wish I'm afraid your school isn't being quite honest

I make it until my kids start to go to bed. Last week my 3 year old asked me if he could help me read a story until it was time for us to fall asleep.

Takver: I don't know about Wales, but there are two different 'diktats' here-one is government checking up on whether the 15-hours nursery care (5 days half time) it currently provides to three year olds is being used properly, the other is about statutory school age attendance figures-where the legal framework is very clear for those not yet 5. If these changes are having the adverse effects you state, then you need to ask governors why they are doing this-it isn't necessarily forced upon them

That's really interesting to know Mrz/Adela. Luckily I'm past that stage - dd is now 9 and is more likely to wear out her teachers rather than be tired herself . But I'll mention it to friends who are finding it an issue, and they can check out what the situation is for Wales (it may be different in that our Foundation stage is I know quite different from that in England).

Starting school

In England and Wales, most local authorities have a policy of accepting children into school at the beginning of the term during which the child becomes five. However, the child does not have to attend school until the beginning of the term following their fifth birthday.

according to the CAB

actually Takver the Welsh Foundation Phase and the English EYFS have more features in common than they have difference

I'm in Wales, they go when they are three. Mine goes whether he is tired or not. He actually has to be ill to stop at home. You may think this is harsh but I'm not having a lazy lounging teenager in future years. Also, feeling a bit tired is not an excuse if you are in farming or self employed so culturally important. The discipline and behaviour and acheivment of the children is very good in general.

Mrz - I am concerned about the boy who's mother can't get out of bed and then he doesn't want to go home. I think you should involve local child protection, it sounds like neglect or worse and she should have support if she has issues which mean that her childrens needs are not being met.

ohanotherone they can go when they are three but they don't have to (the same as in England)

ohanotherone SS are involved and the family are "supported" and have been since before he was born as there are older siblings.

Do you have other options for the free nursery hours in England? I got the impression from posts on here that it didn't have to be in school, whereas I think here in Wales (well at least where we are) it is completely integrated with the school.

Although they don't have to be in school here it is strongly encouraged, because then hopefully by the time they reach reception year they are at least understanding Welsh.

Actually, I think it is a great system overall, dd went from Ti a Fi (parent/toddler group) in the school hall, to the Cylch Meithrin (playgroup) where they stay for a little while without you, then didn't even notice really when she 'started school' as it was just across the corridor and she'd been going to different activities in the same building from being tiny. (Helped also by the fact that the teacher/TA in the reception class are absolutely fantastic of course :) )

Parents have a choice where/if they use their 15 hours free pre school entitlement. On the school site where I work we have a foundation stage unit (3-5 years) and joined on private day care (0-5 years). Most of our children attend the day nursery until they are 3 then transfer to the school nursery for the 15 hours free entitlement.

when I started teaching my first Reception class I would fall asleep in the kitchen sitting on the porch step... never ever ever been so tired.

OP - best to to the teacher. You weren't privy to the conversation between your little one and the teacher, best not to assume until you are in full possession of the facts.

@Takver and ohanotherone

In England the 'free' nursery places are an entitlement per child, amounting to 15 hours per week. This can be in the form of discounting longer periods of nursery care (as we do for my DS) by paying private providers for those 15 hours, or attending discrete sessions amounting to 15 hours at a daycare/nursery (which may be attached to a school or may not). What you describe-universal nursery care in the school children will attend-wouldn't work in most areas of England given the competition for infant places and the wide range of pre-school care options parents use. Those factors must apply in parts of Wales too and, whilst I like the setup you describe for those kids able to use it, I wonder whether it is as general as you imagine, or whether it just represents an option given to you.

I really can't see how attendence can be legally enforced before statutory school age-there may be immense pressure to use a place given and to show it is being used, but it is an entitlement to care not a requirement to use it, surely? I also think something about the setting (school) is blurring the lines here, and am actually quite suspicious (from what you say) of the way that some schools might be using this ongoing relationship to punish parents who wish or have to make other pre-school choices.

Embarrassed: best talk to the teacher even. typing too slow for my brain...

AdeleofBlois,

In Wales, there's no compulsion to send a child under 5, however, I think universally, except for mums who home school anyway, pretty much everyone does. The county council decided to lower the school admission age to term of 4th birthday last year. With some schools offering the 12 (only 12 here) hours per week from 3 years of age depending on facilities. It's pretty much always been like that since I was a child, therefore schools are set up for young & tired little ones. The transition between mothers & Toddlers groups, playgroups or on site nursery provision varies but generally children are taken out of private nurseries when the school provision kicks in.

MrsZ - That's good then, but perhaps not good enough???? Poor things!

It's the same in many parts of England especially rural areas where private nurseries aren't so common.