V. annoyed about local faith school and failed applications

[PiaThreeTimes]

Our local primary is a C of E school and is very selective about who's applications are successful. The headteacher is very keen on references from the local vicar, for example.

This has resulted in many children within easy walking distance of the school not being accepted, to start in Sep. They will have to be driven to the schools at which they have been accepted. However, I know of two children who have been accepted and will have to be driven because of the distance from their home to the school.

This doesn't affect my driectly, BTW. I'm just very annoyed that people will have to drive when they could be walking. Priorities are all wrong here.

OK, it could be argued that it's a faith school and therefore church-goers are their priority, but this feels very ethically wrong to me.

The requirement for a priest's reference will be laid down in the admissions criteria; it's nothing to do with what the head is "keen" on.

I am a bit surprised though, the overwhelming majority if CofE schools already have comment places as well as faith places. The Church establishment is keen to encourage them to have more.

But at least, if traffic and journey nonsenses are your main worry, you can be glad you don't have a lottery system!

The head is keen on it, and was involved in the formation of the admissions criteria, as far as I understand it.

What's a comment place?

I really don't like all this. Why can't each school be filled with whoever's nearest? Naive, maybe.

Thanks.

A typo - sorry, it was meant to say "community".

To an extent being close is the right thing, but if a school is a faith school (of whatever religion), they should have the right to give priority to parents in the local area who actively want their children to learn about faith at school as well as home.

There should be some limits though - I am fuming for a friend whose son has been turned down for a place in our local Catholic primary, even though his brother will still be there. The reason? They go to the other Catholic church in town, and she wasn't hypocritical enough to put in a once a month appearance at the one by the school. (Its reputation has increased since her older son started, she had no trouble getting him in so didn't think it would be a problem this time) But children from miles away, outside the parish boundary, can get in if they attend at least once a month. Apparently it is changing next year to prioritise children in the parish area, whichever of the churches they go to, but that will be too late for her, she will have to appeal and hope.

OP I suggest you submit comments when the admissions policy is due for review. The draft policy should be published and there should be a consultation period for 'local' community.

That's awful, Housemum. The local school here prioritises siblings. After the reference-from-the-vicar-people there are far too few places available.

JWIM, I'll encourage others who will be applying to the school to do that. Thanks.

My daughter did not get to the faith school that lives 5mins walk from where we live even we have the priest to sign the application form.

I was so frustrated when i know i was allocated in a very very bad school.

I am planning to move to other area and hopefully i will allocate to a better school.

"Why can't each school be filled with whoever's nearest" - because we have parental choice. It really is that simple. Either all children have to go to their nearest school or we give parents a choice.

The head may have some involvement in setting the admission criteria but it is not his decision. Most faith schools give some priority to parents who can produce a letter from the vicar showing they worship regularly. That is the nature of faith schools, although I note that the relevant people in the CofE are suggesting that fewer places should be reserved for children of the faith.

Once the admission criteria are set, applications must be processed strictly using those criteria. It is not up to the head alone who is and is not admitted.

As JWIM suggests, you can always comment on the admission criteria when they are published for consultation. It may not make a lot of difference, though.

I'm divided on this. If the C of E prefers to take children who are possible more committed to the church then I don't see the problem really - it would be the same for other faith schools so why should C of E be different?
Would send your daughter to a C of E if the state school was closer?
Maybe the school likes to hold assembly with prayers - I wonder how many parents of kids who don't go to church would complain about that? They have a set of beliefs and they have the right to defend those beliefs and maintain a certain standard which non believers /church goers might not be able to understand or tolerate.

I think its wrong. I have 4 schools close to me, all roughly equal distance. Only one of those is not CofE. The next closes school is Catholic, and beyond that you are into the next town, again with 5 CofE schools, and only one that is not connected to any religion.

How does that provide parental choice when people are effectively excluded from 3 out of 4 local schools on religious grounds. It's ridiculous. Thankfully for us the lovely CofE school my dc go to doesn't have such ridiculous critera, and they are there to serve local children, not the local church.

I doubt that that's the case in most places though bubble - especially larger cities and towns. You have to remember that it all dates back years when most of the population did go to church. Its only in recent decades that society has become so secular. You can't just irradicate years of social history - It takes time!

bubble - most faith schools don't EXCLUDE people for not attending church, unless there is such a vibrant local church community that they can fill all the school places (as is the case with some Catholic schools). I understand a majority of C of E schools are also expected to take a minimum of 10% pupils who are not faith related IYSWIM.

It's really sad that so many people seem to be so prejudiced about the individuals right to express their faith and want their children to have an education that includes an expression of that faith. My children attending a faith based school is really important to me, personally. I intend that all my children will have the opportunity to attend a faith school. I also think it's great if children from non-religious have the opportunity to experience a faith school environment so they have the opportunity to experience a religion and make up their own minds about it.

read 'non-religious backgrounds', ahem...

It annoys me because whilst I am interested and supportive of faiths, I cannot attend church because I just don't believe.

I am excluded because I have an inability to believe.

Our village school is CoE. DS1 is in reception - this time last year I worried he wouldn't get in, as even though it's less than a mile away we were 5/7 on criteria having no faith or siblings. Children living 10 miles away applying to the school would have more priority than families living in the village. This is wrong

Eh? Nobody appears prejudiced because of the individuals' right to express their faith, bb99.

I think a good school should encourage children who are nearest to the school and that should be the priority, for the sake of the environment, children's health and the local community. I'd be very annoyed for all of those reasons if I had to drive my child past other local children walking to school, to go to a school further away because (in the case of my local school) we're not church-goers.

Children with siblings would STILL have a higher priority than you captain. WWYD about that?

Sending your children to a faith school is IMO, an expression of your faith and the faith you hope they will have an opportunity to evolve.

Pia - what about a 'bad' school, should the children local to that have to attend? ;-)

I'd do nothing about that - that's correct that siblings should have priority. I was just explaining why I was so low down in criteria. Actually I think it was 6/7 - being that my son has no faith and lives in the parish - 7 being people outside the parish.

I can understand CoE schools wanting to ensure CoE kids go there - but nearly all the schools near me (certainly within a 8 mile radius) are CoE. Surely they don't need to prioritise?

I agree with this guy www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/apr/22/church-england-schools-places-non-christians

bb99, it's important to me that my children attend a secular school ie with no 'collective act of worship of a broadly Christian nature'. However, this isn't actually available in our State system as the National Curriculum demands the above.

And, yes, faith schools do exclude people for not attending church via their admissions criteria which usually go something like looked after of x faith, SEN of x faith, siblings of X faith already in school, x faith worshippers with letter from relevant religious authority in parish, x faith worshippers in other parishers, y, z an other faith worshippers, any other children ie atheists. Atheists have absolutely no chance of getting in to the faith schools near here as a result of these admissions criteria. The 10% community places usually means community of X faith places.

I'm absolutely not prejudices about individuals expressing their faiths. There is plenty of time outside of the education system for them to do so.

but your priorities are "environment, children's health and the local community"
others would have their faith at the top of that list

And some parents may be driving to work past their DCs' school, so even though they may be 10 miles away, it may not involve extra journey

I know that most schools don't exclude people because of religion, as I said, our lovely CofE school doesn't, but some do and I think it's wrong. Only taking 10% of non religious children is too few. If there are more people of no faith in an area than there are religious people, then schols need to reflect that, and some would have to either lose their CofE status or lost the right to prioritise children because of whether or not their parents go to church.

I would be sad to see CofE schools go, Christianity is what this country is based on and they should remain. But people should not be told that they can't send their child to their local school if they are happy for them to have the religious input because they choose not to attend church. If a school is oversubscribed then fine, but do it on distance, not religion.

My DC go to a non selective CofE school. It has all different religions represented. No one gets admittance priority based on religion.

I read that article, captain and liked the author. It's unlikely to happen, I suspect, as churches rely on a large proportion of their congregation being parents of pre-school children who are counting their weeks until they get their letter from the vicar.

disco, that was the sort of school I went to. Local village school that everyone went to that was C of E. Most criticism is levelled at faith schools that select on the basis of faith and effectively exclude members of the local community who do not believe.