DTs 'hate' school and I don't know what to do

[verybored]

DTs are in year 1 at local school. 3 form entry, approx 90 children, DTs are in different classes.

Reception went like a dream. Both had fantastic teachers and it was better than we could have hoped for, especially as they were separated.

Year 1 is a total nightmare. DT1 has an NQT who although lovely and clearly knows her stuff, is obviusoly quite inexperienced dealing with small children. DT2 has the most appalling teacher known to man. She also taught DS1 years ago and I have known at least 5 children leave the school because of her.

Problems are: behaviour. The year group seems to be particularly bad, but I also said this about DS1's year group many moons ago so maybe that's just how it is. In reception the teachers seemed to deal with it well. For year 1 they mixed them all up which seemed to be a better split of the children but the behaviour is appalling.

DT2 was pushed to the ground with such force he hit his head directly on the concrete - this happened twice. The same child near strangled another and friends had to pull him off. He has also stabbed another child in the head with a pencil as well as numerous other incidents.

DT 1 since easter has been pulled to the floor by one child who sat on him while another hit him. More than once. The school are apparently 'keeping an eye' but DS says they are not doing anything and he is told to stay away from the naughtly children.

These are not the worst children. They have been removed to a form of 'nurture group' away from the other children as they were too disruptive and really needed more than just teaching

Both are insistent they will not go to school. Obviously, they do go but this morning DT1 cried the minute we got out the door and again when we got to the school gate with 'please send me to another school, please don't make me go'. I have called the school and he is fine and they were unaware he had been upset.

Both boys insist school is just 'boring and I hate it'. DT1 has also wet the bed 3 times recently, however he has only been reliable at night for a few months so this may or may not be related.

Then I have to throw the junior school into the mix. I removed DS1 from that school in year 5 a few years ago. We had thought the headteacher would be sure to leave before the DTs got there but sadly he is still there.

Both schools have just been rated 'satisfactory' by Ofsted. This is the worst rating the infants have ever had. The juniors has always been about the same but their ability to improve is only satisfactory as apparently the school asseses itself as better than it really is.

What do we do? I would conseider home ed but DH is definite against. The next nearest school is full, but also apparently has only 30 year one pupils, 25 of which are boys and apparently its a nightmare.

The next closest school has history of special measures but is now good. But the school is practically empty and could either be a fantastic move or a disaster. I think that a lot of the intake still has behaviour problems and there wouldn't be many children for them to find friends with. Their best friend is at another local school, but judging from the behaviour of others at his party, it would be no better.

Then there is the school we sent DS1 to. It's tiny with only 12 per year group, which is why we didn't send DTs there as we thought it was too small for a set of identical twins who need to find indepenence from eachother. There is also another school which seems to be improving but I think is probably full.

The year group locally seems to be quite low in numbers so we could probably find somewhere if we decided to move, but I don't want to move them and find the problems the same. Apart from the bahaviour of the other chidlren, they insist school is boring. At home they will read and do maths, usually quite keenly, they are not keen on writing. Neither seems to have learnt a thing this year and most improvements they have made are bcause I have been doing work at home with them.

I really need some objective views on this, and also experiences from others who have been through this.

I should add, they both have lovely lovely friends, if they didn't they would have been out of there like a shot.

I have to go out now but if you have managed to read all this, please advise, whatever your opinion.

Thanks

Sounds awful.

I would conseider home ed but DH is definite against

why is DH so against this option ? Is it because he knows a lot about it or because he knows nothing about it ?

Maybe you could suggest this as an option (say from now until September) to give the kids a bit of recovery time, with a view to moving to a new school in September ?

That would give you time to investigate the other options really well.

I have id twins as well (they are now 8). They went to a small country school with a year group of 15 and had no issues with identity or independence - they are not dependent on each other. Certainly worth considering as an option - it can hardly be worse that what they have at present.

What a dilemma, my sympathies. If I were you I would go and have a proper look at the school previously in special measures, as generally schools in this situation get a lot of help and support and do improve vastly, certainly do not dismiss it because of any previous reputation. No more help, sorry, not been in this situation.

From experience (tho not twins) & with hindsight I would get them out of there. The alarm bells go when your DS says school is not doing anything - adults at school should back the victim of physical harm. Also that the school think the solution is to say the better behaved children should steer clear of the naughty.That's trying to avoid the problem not deal with it.

If you are determined to leave them there longer start keeping detailed records of incidences involving your kids. Get the governors involved early.

I would go for the school with the very small year group. Your children will be seen as individuals because everyone will know them so well.

Nearly all schools have some behaviour problems, but these sound bad.

I wouldn't take to heart too much them saying school is boring - children often say this when they mean they don't want to go (for any reason - bullying, no friends, would rather be at home playing out!) - but it is a sign that they are not content, and that is worth listening to!

Year 1 is very different to Reception. Once they are expected to sit still forlonger, children's behaviour problems become more obvious, and there is not as much 'fun' in the average day.

If you are willing and able to home educate then I would say that's the best option. I looked into it and was very impressed. My DH didn't want to either so I kind of chickened out even though I had been so inspired and ready to HE having done all the reading and met a few families. I 'bottled it' in the end because the schools they go to are actually pretty good. If you want to do it then your DH needs to be more supportive.

The more I read about HE the more compelling I found the argument that it really is a FAR better way to facilitate the education and development of their young minds. I bottled it though because I was unsure how I would cope never getting a break from them.

Your options sound pretty terrible TBH. What are the secondary schools like? If they're crap as well it might be a good idea to move.

Also, you need to guard against their building up a resistance to organised education. If they become dissaffected so early it may be hard to regain their trust for education institutions.

School failed to engage me. I have to work much harder in life as a result.

DH isn't keen on home ed for a couple of reasons. One being that it would mean I couldn't work. I am a SAHM but am looking for work to fit in around the children - been looking for 2 years though and we can survive on his wage but it does put a lot of pressure on him. He is also worried about the social side of things - I am not. They do lots of clubs, plus this type of socialising is not doing them any good at all.

Secondaries are not a problem, luckily

The main problem is all the local schools look good on paper. The one their friend goes to is and I know there are a lot of boisterous boys and there is also quite a lot of violence.

My biggest worry is we move them and they are still miserable and it's just a 'school' problem (presuming we don't home ed).

I'm so sad because we agonised over this for months before sending them there because of the problems DS had in the juniors. We never thought the infants would be a problem. Now is some ways this is worse than DS1 had, but I sort of feel like what if its me? Am I being too over protective and expecting too much, but surely my children go there to learn, not to be hurt.

If I had been home edding and they were being hurt daily and learnt nothing, I would surely be prosecuted.

OMG this really does sound similar to my situation. My heart goes out to you verybored. I too have considered home ed - DS doing well at school but like yours not to keen on writing and says school is boring. He finishes his work and is asked to help the other children!
I have started another thread because I had not seen yours and would not want to hijack anyway, by the consensus is to move my DS away and looking at your thread would suggest the same to you.

Home ed is hard - even though as we do, you send your DC's to various clubs, school is a unique experience. The compromise would be to send them to a friendly caring school that has a zero tolerance on bad behaviour - children need to feel safe in school.

I like the sound of that school - now we just have to find it

LOL - how right you are! If you find it let me know and I'll send my DS there too.

So - I would take a deep breath and don't do anything dramatic as a reflex response to the problems, but maybe start to document them.
Then I would go and see all the schools that are possibles (with DH if at all possible), starting with the one your eldest son is at ( but go and see the year 1/2 classes which would affect your DTs). I wouldn't include the one that is oversubscribed at this point. Try and go at a time when children are in school so you can see the school "in action".

After each visit, firstly take note of your feelings and gut reactions. Did you get a light cheerful positive feel? How did you feel about the appropriate class teachers? How much access to the school were you allowed? How did you feel about the head teacher? How do they provide for individual children if they are bored with the work that the majority are doing? Write all this down. Gut feelings are pretty important as you know your children very well and are as expert as anyone about what will suit them. Then do the analytical bit writing down pros and cons. Eg pro: can take all dcs to same school; con: DTs will be in same class etc

Once you have visited all your possible schools, Look at your lists and written feelings. You will probably be able to eliminate one or 2 schools straight away. If one is not obviously top of the list, you may need to make a further visit. If you still can't distinguish the best one, it may be that one of two schools might both be equally fine for your DTs. In which case go on practicalities (ease of getting them there etc). I really wouldn't try and do this kind of decision making without visiting each school though as I think your gut reactions to the atmosphere are really very important.

As far as the DTs are concerned, I would maybe tell them that you are looking into whether it might be possible for them to go to another school but that it needs time to look into it. (They will probably pick up on your anxieties and uncertainties anyway so it might be better to say something than nothing!) Make no promises of course at this stage, but you may find they will be happier to go to school in the short term if they know you are taking things seriously and looking into what can be done!

Finally, if none of the alternative schools are suitable, your DH may be more open to the possibility of homeschooling, if you have looked carefully into all possible alternatives first!

Hope things work out well for you all!

Thanks Sarah. I should point out that DS1 is now a teenager so we don't have to worry about taking them all to the same school.

When we visited the school that we moved him to in year 5, I immediately felt 'at home' and knew it was right for him. I LOVE that school but would need to see how big that year group is currently - I recently heard only 4 children but obviously they mix the year groups.

We will not consider the one with 25 boys as we visited it when looking for schools for them and didn't like it - I couldn't tell you why, but just a feeling.

I have been to the ex special measures school before - once when DS1 was starting school, so 10 years ago and again 4 years ago for a job interview (I didn't get it but i'm not bitter!). I would need to see what it's like now though.

So difficult. I saw DT1's teacher today and she said they will do an observation and watch out for him - this is what I was told last week so it clearly hasn't been done. DT2 is saying tonight the reason he hates school is his teacher, but for DT1 it's everything.

I think if we did move them it would be between DS1's old school (short car journey) and improving ex bad school which is probably 15 min walk.

Really regretting not sending them to DS1's old school in reception now but hindsight's great isn't it.

verybored, whatever you decide to do, what your children will see is that you made a decision, you tried to do something to help them and you supported them. That is what every child needs - a wonderful parent

MY gut reaction based on what you have shared here is to move them to the school your other son went to. I wouldn't worry too much about mixed years and smaller classes - if they are happy then it will be worth the trade off.

If the move does not work out then in a year or so's time (when you have given it a shot) you have the fall back of home ed. I think ultimately that your boys will do well and be happy - because they have you to make sure that happens, and it sounds like you are doing a great job at working to sort things out for them right now.

Very best of luck.

Protests again this morning. I have promised them we will all talk over the weekend and work out what we want to do. I have just found out another child has just been removed from year 2 and gone to DS1's old school.

Funnily enough all the unhappy ones seem to be boys, the girls mostly seem ok.

My thoughts today are to move them to DS1's old school. DT2 is very worried about leaving his friends bless him, although I have promised if we do move them that we will keep in touch with them.

I would change school. Something similar happened to a relative of mine and changing school turned out to be the best thing for her and her sister - better school, better exam results and both made very good friends.

P.S. I would also (though I suspect you already have) tell your DTs they are right not to be happy about going back to school and playing with those boys who have hit and pushed them as the boys have behaved very badly.

It does sound like the school doesn't have anti-bullying measures. I am not keen on the home schooling idea as a first option either because it sends the message to your DTs that school is a dangerous and unpleasant place for them, whereas in fact it isn't in most schools, in fact, it is wonderful in some. They deserve the chance to try a better school. It's a bit like being thrown off a horse - the sooner you get back in the saddle (maybe of a different horse!) the better. My suggestion is to keep the home schooling as a last resort.

(Might also be a good idea to write to either board of governors/Ofsted/council about this if you've spoken to the headteacher and gotten nowhere so that some efforts to change things for the other kids can be made - but do this only after you've gone!)

It turns out another boy in DT1's class is having exactly the same issues. I saw him crying and clinging to his mum this morning

DT1 seems to be better about going to school now he knows there is an option to move, but DT2 just keeps sayign he will miss his friends. Obviously we have to move both or neither and we ave to get it right.

This is so bloody difficult and I so wish we'd sent them elsewhere to start with. What the bloody hell were we thinking??

Suggest to DT2 that you can have his friends over for playdates/tea? How many friends is he talking about - 2 or 3 or about 20? You can assure him that children move schools all the time (eg primary to secondary, infant school to junior school) and adults too (uni or college) and that he will make new friends. I suspect once DT2 gets to new school and make new friends, he will forget about missing any old ones....kids tend to move on very quickly and accept that their best buddies are moving on too.

It must be dreadful sending Dcs to a school they hate and don't feel save in. They are not happy and won't be able to learn, nor are you happy and you fear for their safety.

I would have another good look at alternative options. I don't know much about home ed, the school your DS1 goes to might be an option, are there any other schools a bit further away you would be prepared to drive them to, any private schools if you can afford it, they might have scholarships?

I feel especially during the infant years happiness is more important than academics, they are still so little.

Well it all happened again today, only this boy managed to get both of them. So mush for the teachers doing observations! Although he does have to do time out tomorrow as punishment but apparently he attacked at least 5 children

I found out today that in fact 2 year 2s left at easter due to bullying that wasn't dealt with.

We have chatted again and we discussed what they are learning and it doesn't seem to be much and apparently the teachers spend most of their time telling the naughty ones off.

So as of this evening they are both a bit keener to move as they have also realised they would be in the same class at the other school (DS1's old school).

I think we will look into the possibility of moving them at half term. Just fingers crossed we get it right this time!

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong in that school. Someone attacked 5 children and just gets a time out? How did you get that information?

Not sure whether I could expose my DS (Y1) to this every day. I might take mine out and do some emergency home ed until 1/2 term. Not sure what the rules are, but I would soon find out. But if you are working that might be difficult too.

I wouldn't wait til half term if I were you! Phone round schools tomorrow morning, briefly explain the predicament, look round them all this week and then make a decision. I think it's appalling that you've raised your concerns and yet your children are being physically attacked so frequently and they still do nothing. I had to change my son's school and was surprised at how quickly I was able to find him a much better school for him when I was suddenly dropped in a situation whereby I had to remove him from his first school with immediate effect. I looked round 5 schools within 2 days!!!

verybored - just read through latest posts . Move them. It is not worth the angst, really, it isn't. The thing about this is that is seeps into home life, all the discussions, all the worrying. Primary school should be a happy time and looked back on fondly.
I had my meetings yesterday with both new and current school. We have made a decision - I am anxious about it, but we are going to move him, as others have said on my thread - it's a no brainer. When I read your thread I think "it's a no brainer". I too worry about leaving friends, but they can keep in touch and they can make new friends. I think the school you are currently in is being very naive about this boy - as my school is about their core of trainee sociopaths, and this attitude does not help the good DC's or the offending boy(s).

True, you could also find them another school straight away. If that school you chose has a place 1/2 term then the place will propably be there now. I would go and ask.