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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Legal position re taking a term off

75 replies

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 10:10

hi, dh has been asked to go to the US for 6 months from 1st July.
DD1 is in yr2, DD2 is in reception.
i am due to see the headteacher later today to ask her to hold their places, we will be back for Christmas, so effectively they will be missing the last couple of weeks of summer term and the whole of the Christmas term.

I intend to home-school them while we are away, DD2 wouldn't be eligible to go to school in the US yet and for one term I think it would be quite disruptive for DD1 (i may change my mind on this... or get them a tutor)

Does anyone know the legal position on this? Will the headteacher be forced to free up the space and take someone off the waiting list? Am I allowed to take them out of school?

TIA

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GiddyPickle · 26/04/2011 10:19

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 10:21

well yes that is the problem - i wonder whether she could mark them as "authorised absence"?

if it is about the money we could probably pay it

but if it is about numbers.... DD1 will be going into y3, KS2. I thought the max numbers per class was relaxed at KS2, so she could go up to 31 if she filled the place whilst we were away?

OP posts:

mankyscotslass · 26/04/2011 10:25

This happened at our school.

The head teacher was sympathetic but her hands were tied.

The 2 children lost their places, when they returned from Canada the school could only offer a place to their DD in year 4, the younger DS could not be accomodated at the school, as they had filled his space from the waiting list.

I think if the school is not oversubscribed and does not have a waiting list then you may be lucky when you return.

GiddyPickle · 26/04/2011 10:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 10:32

ok thanks
the school is very oversubscribed with a waiting list
i am sure if she can keep the places she will, my daughters are model pupils
i just wondered what the legals were, her PA certainly was all doom and gloom about "social services banging on my door" and "local authorities" and what have you

OP posts:

AMumInScotland · 26/04/2011 10:40

There's certainly no problem at all about taking them out - and the PA clearly knows nothing if she thinks there will be - you can deregister them from school any time you like, and educate them without school. But as others have said, its the getting them back in when you return that could be tricky - the head teacher will have to look into how long she can hold the places for you.

You may also need to look into the law in the State that you will be living in over in the US, as the requirements for home schooling vary from one state to another - they likely won't be worried when you are Brits and only there for a term, but best to check with them to make sure.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 10:53

well maybe if she says she can only keep the place open for half a term then we could go and come back after october half term leaving dh out there, then back again for december?

Maybe that is how i should approach her "how long can you hold the place for?"

hmmm, interesting......... thanks for all your comments, keep them coming!

OP posts:

Swedes2 · 26/04/2011 10:56

Amaidawash - Whatever you do, it is surely possible to allow your children to finish their summer term?

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 11:00

well yes i suppose so
but that is dh in the US for 3 weeks without us
and i have to do the 11 hour flight without him
and what do they really do in the last few weeks of term?

but yes, if it means she can hold the place as it is just one term of course i can do that

OP posts:

Swedes2 · 26/04/2011 11:04

If your children are happy at school and you're happy with it, I think you'd be nuts to disrupt their happiness for a brief spell in your husband's job. Your husband could go ahead of you by 2/3 weeks, you could wait till the summer term ends and go out to the USA to join your husband for the whole summer. You could then come back with the children and go out for half term (perhaps you could get this extended by a week each side under the circs which would give you 3 weeks in the states with your husband).

Each half term is only 6 weeks.

Swedes2 · 26/04/2011 11:08

That way your children get all the excitement and experience of the USA without the disruption of having to give up their happy stable lives at school in the UK.

Panelmember · 26/04/2011 11:08

The Guide to the Law for school governors doesn't say very much about leave of absence -

Governing bodies should authorise appropriate staff within the school to grant leave of absence to pupils and provide policies about allowing such leave. Leave cannot be granted for pupils to take up paid or unpaid employment except for public performances licensed by the LA or work abroad licensed by magistrates.
The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 restrict leave of absence for family holidays to 10 school days a year in special circumstances and allow longer in exceptional circumstances. The decision rests with schools, and families have no ?right? to such leave. The application for leave must be made in advance by the parent the pupil normally resides with.

I think, then, that this will be very much down to the headteacher's discretion. My hunch is that most heads of a school with a long waiting list would feel that they had to offer the vacancy to children from the waiting list (especially as there is always the possibility that circumstances will change and the child that expected to be away for a term will be away for, say, a year ir more). Be aware that if you do surrender your places, being ex-pupils will give your children no priority when you return and you will need to join the waiting list for this school and meanwhile find places in whichever local schools do have places in the years you need.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but you need to go into this with your eyes open.

Panelmember · 26/04/2011 11:09

A Guide to the Law for School Governors on Dept for Education website.

FriedEggyAndSlippery · 26/04/2011 11:10

Yes I would be inclined to leave with DH. They won't do much at all at the end of summer term, and if you were stressed by being alone with the DCs and getting the last bits sorted, then they won't enjoy it anyway.

Obviously I don't know your DCs but at first glance I wouldn't bother with a tutor either. It would take a while to establish what they'd be missing at school, and it may be completely different from what they're doing in the US. Possible of course but not worth it for only 6 months IMHO. That amount of time won't spoil their education.

Perhaps you could ask for some stuff to take from school, find out what topic they'll be doing and do your own project, study the relevant bits of maths and science from books, do lots of reading. But mostly just enjoy being in a new place and soaking up a different culture.

Home ed board is really good on MN, I'm sure you'd get great advice there.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 11:10

well yes i won't risk losing their school place,
it just seems crazy for the sake of a term, both DDs are well ahead in class, i am more than confident i could cover the curriculum. as long as my sanity holds up!
it could be a great life experience for all of us.

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FriedEggyAndSlippery · 26/04/2011 11:12

(I'm just coming at this from a personal view btw, I have no experience of the legal aspects. Just sounds like a really exciting adventure to me!)

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 11:14

thank you panelmember - we live quite close to the school so hopefully would be fairly high on the waiting list coming back in, or we would send them to our local private school for a term or two which has plenty of space at their age.

friedegg that is what i am thinking, if either of them were in anyway behind i wouldn't risk it.

dh can say no to the 6 months, but he really wants to do it and for his career he needs the experience of this project.

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moscow · 26/04/2011 14:38

no one else's business really, but as this is a discussion board... is is really worth messing about with your children's education for the sake of a term? surely your DH could come back a few times during the six months to see you all, and you go out there for the holidays? apologies if this seems a bit harsh, but there will have been people desperate for your children's places at the school (you said it was oversubscribed), and yet you don't seem to value it that much ('what do they do in the last few weeks of term anyway?') quite a lot as it happens.

Even if your DH really wants to do it, and 'needs it for his career', is it fair to disrupt things that much when it isn't necessary? thousands of military workers, offshore workers and all sorts of people, fathers AND mothers, work away for a time, it shouldn't harm things at home for what is a short while?

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 17:23

i do value it very much actually moscow and if we lose the place i said we would not go, dh would go alone or not at all.

however i have seen the headteacher today and she thought it was a wonderful opportunity for the family and thought it would be a dreadful idea for dh to go alone. she said they were the perfect age to do it and she would do "everything in her power" to keep our places and we were not to worry. She promised me that if it looked like the local authority was going to send someone she would phone me and then I could come straight back, she didn't think that would happen, but would do so if it reassured me.

education doesn't just take place in the classroom you know. both my dds are well ahead and bright, what they will gain from this I think will be worth the disruption.

OP posts:

moscow · 26/04/2011 17:31

I am very well aware that education doesn't take place just in the classroom. My point, which I think was obvious enough, was this: is it fair to a child who was desperate for a place and is on the waiting list, to have your children's places left unused on and off at your convenience? If it was my child on the waiting list for a school with this sort of situation, and I heard there was a place left unused because a child was abroad, I would be livid. Wouldn't you?

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 17:42

for a term, no.

OP posts:

moscow · 26/04/2011 17:47

Oh, yes of course, because a term of education doesn't matter......all you have to do is read any of the threads on here from people in tears because their children have no place, a place at a failing school 4 miles away, twins allocated different schools...

but as long as you can have your head's 'reasurance' that you'll get a call if another child actually wants to take up the place by physically being in the classroom, that's fine.

Lulabellarama · 26/04/2011 17:48

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2011 17:55

I agree with lulu. We wouldn't keep a place for a whole term. If they're kept on roll it will affect the whole school attendance whether the head authorises or not, and if she has children on the waiting list if would be really difficult. The law says you have to see that the children receive regular education , which doesn't mean they have to be in school - you can withdraw and do it yourself but you can't generally have a foot in both camps ie home ed and have a place on roll.

You would have to have a very accommodating head and LA who would consider the child educated elsewhere for a whole term.

Panelmember · 26/04/2011 17:57

OP - I don't want to be a doom-monger, but try to pin your Headteacher down about how and when she would alert you to someone coming to take your children's places. Unless this is a VA school (which is its own admissions authority), waiting lists and casual admissions are now managed by the LEA and not by individual schools. As far as I know (and I generally only get involved in admissions once they've reached the appeals stage, so I may be wrong here), the first your HT may know of a new pupil on their way is when the LEA has actually filled the place.

Then again, if the vacancy has not been notified to the LEA then none of this is likely to arise. I fear, though, that Lulabellarama may be right and the school may have no choice but to inform the LEA after a fixed time.

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