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Primary education

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Original poster

Legal position re taking a term off

75 replies

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 10:10

hi, dh has been asked to go to the US for 6 months from 1st July.
DD1 is in yr2, DD2 is in reception.
i am due to see the headteacher later today to ask her to hold their places, we will be back for Christmas, so effectively they will be missing the last couple of weeks of summer term and the whole of the Christmas term.

I intend to home-school them while we are away, DD2 wouldn't be eligible to go to school in the US yet and for one term I think it would be quite disruptive for DD1 (i may change my mind on this... or get them a tutor)

Does anyone know the legal position on this? Will the headteacher be forced to free up the space and take someone off the waiting list? Am I allowed to take them out of school?

TIA

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

mummytime · 26/04/2011 17:58

Personally I would go, they are only little and it really won't disrupt their education. I might try to get them into a US school/Kindergarten for a term (although they maybe a bit young for this) for the cultural experience. Then if I couldn't get them back into the school of choice I would home educate them for a while.

Now with my teens it would be much harder to do this.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 18:00

oh bloody hell now i don't know what to do!

OP posts:

BarbaraBar · 26/04/2011 18:00

I'm a bit confused.

Has the head said that she'll let you know if the LA are giving the places to other children? Surely by that stage the deed is done and the "replacement" children will have been told they are coming and will be polishing their shoes? Has the head told you to jump on a plane and get back quick smart before the other children turn up? I don't see how that will work.

Your children being away will mess up the attendance issue too and the head won't be able to do much about that.

I think she is promising you more than she can give you.

Original poster

amidaiwish · 26/04/2011 18:03

she told me "not to worry she would do everything in her power"

i was the one that said i would come straight back if it looked like we were about to lose the place, ie it had been filled.

maybe she knows the run rate of the school, people leave all the time, so she thinks we'll be safe enough to get back in. i don't blimming know. arghhhh

OP posts:

mummytime · 26/04/2011 18:07

My Dcs junior head teacher would be fine if it wasn't years R-2, as he'd squeeze them in. But it is a VA school, and usually has more than 30 in a class, although its PAN is for only 30 in each class.

Panelmember · 26/04/2011 18:43

That's my point, amidaiwish. My hunch (but it's no better than that) is that not much of this process actually lies within your headteacher's powers and she may (repeat, may) be promising more than she can deliver. Most of the decisions (I think) will actually lie with the LEA. The way I think it would pan out - but your HT may be able to provide information to disprove this - is something like this...

After (say) 6 weeks' absence, school has to notify the LEA that your children have left the school and their places are vacant

LEA fills the vacancies from the waiting list that they hold

LEA tells parents that their children have a place and provides details to the school

School has no discretion to overturn this or to offer the places to anyone else.

As I said, I don't want to be a doom-monger but before you take what might be an irrevocable step in effectively surrendering the places you need to obtain a much clearer statement on your LEA's policies towards leave of absence, holding places open and casual (ie in-year) admissions.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/04/2011 18:49

amidaiwish - her powers may not stretch far this is the issue.

She does not have the authority to authorise you more than 10 days at most. After that you really are on borrowed time and she will be being hassled by Education Welfare with regard to off-rolling your children or you being chased for non-attendance which may result in a penalty warning and fine at best.

If the place has been 'filled' then you have been off-rolled and you can't just jump back in.

catsareevil · 26/04/2011 18:51

If she is saying that she will contact you if the place has been filled it will be too late - the place will belong to another child.

AMumInScotland · 26/04/2011 18:54

How about contacting the LEA direct and finding out if they have a policy on this? They may be able to make an exception for you, or to tell you it's not posible - either way, at least you'd know for sure.

If they say they can, then get it in writing!

bluerodeo · 26/04/2011 18:59

i think this decision is made by the governing body not the headteacher?

a family at our school recently asked for very same time off, and altho the head sanctioned it, the decision rested with GB.

PoppetUK · 26/04/2011 20:55

How full are the classes currently?? We moved back from Australia and had 2 children to place. We had to wait for a child to not accept a place on day 10 before the LA gave it to us. In our area I think the LA wouldn't be happy with the situation if they had families moving into the catchment and children abroad not attending holding places. The experience I am sure will be worth it.

Gabucci · 26/04/2011 21:34

Gosh what a bunch of misery guts! It sounds like a wonderful opportunity for the children, and they are so adaptable at that age. If I were you I'd sod the place, go to the States and have faith in Providence that the right places (at that school or another one) will become available when you return. We only get one life, so live it!

SE13Mummy · 26/04/2011 21:46

One way of buying yourselves some more time may be to submit a request for 10 days holiday at the end of this academic year (July) and again at the start of next academic year (September). That would give you all a decent period over in the US and, once you've checked the situation with the LA, you can decide if you and your DDs will come back in the Autumn (for a week!) to keep the school places or take the risk that one or other of your DDs may have to be home educated for a while on your return.

It's also worth finding out about dual registration and if there's ever a circumstance under which the 'other school' can be outside of the UK (it may be possible if you sign them up with an International or British school - I'm guessing, I don't actually know this!).

It does sound like an amazing opportunity and your DDs are a great age for it... I'd do it if I had the opportunity (DH and I are both teachers so it's unlikely to happen for that period of time).

Original poster

amidaiwish · 27/04/2011 10:05

thanks all, we're going to go for it and trust that the outcome will be ok. can't live life not taking any risks at all.

OP posts:

Original poster

amidaiwish · 27/04/2011 10:06

SE13Mummy, yes that's a good suggestion thanks

OP posts:

Swedes2 · 27/04/2011 11:07

It would be totally absurd for an LEA to reserve a school place for a child who is living overseas. It would set a very dangerous precedent and your headteacher has no power to grant leave beyond 10 school days.

Swedes2 · 27/04/2011 11:12

Whether it's an opportunity too good to miss is an entirely separate matter. The Q in the OP is about what's the position with regard to holding open the school places.

Where in the USA are you going?

nowtundercontrol · 27/04/2011 13:35

If we flip this on its head, if you returned to the catchment and were put into place 1 on the waiting list and were told that although there was a space the family were away for one term and so you couldn't have it surely you'd appeal?

You have to be in a catchment to have a place at a school & your children should be able to attend apart from any allowed days leave of absence permitted by your LA.

I'd love to go to the US for a term - or even simply travel - but the system has to be fair to everyone and you are unlikely to be able to have your cake and eat it.

FreudianSlipOnACrown · 27/04/2011 16:18

As you've decided to go for it (I am really jealous!) get thee to the Home Ed board - post what you are doing and you will get some great advice about homeschooling. (I'm not a home edder but I lurk there a lot, it's great for inspiration)

Swedes2 · 27/04/2011 16:56

You're going to need the home ed board when you come back and your children's school places are taken by some other children.

mrz · 27/04/2011 17:21

Actually the school can grant extended leave and it is at the head teacher's discretion

The regulations clearly make the point that the head teacher has the final decision as to whether to authorise the holiday or not.

Education (Schools and Further Education) Regulations 1981,
Regulation 12.
Contained within this regulation, there is a discretionary power for leave to be granted for the purpose of an annual family holiday or an annual holiday during term time.
Such permission is granted in accordance with arrangements made by the governing body of the school. Only in exceptional circumstances may the amount of leave granted exceed, in total, more than two weeks in any year.

The above definition is further refined and clarified by:
The Education (Pupil Registration) Regulations 1995 Leave of absence
Section 8 (1) ?Leave of absence may only be granted by a person authorised in that behalf by the proprietor of the school?
Section 8 (3) ?Subject to paragraph (4), on application made by the parent with whom the pupil normally resides, a pupil may be granted leave of absence from the school to enable him/her to go away on holiday?
Section 8 (4) ?Save in exceptional circumstances, a pupil shall not in pursuance of paragraph (3) be granted more than ten school days leave in any school year?
Section 9 (1)e For extended trips overseas only ? states that a child?s name must be removed from the register if:
? the pupil has not been granted a leave of absence exceeding ten school days and
? he has not returned by the agreed date
? he has continued to be absent for a further ten days
? the head teacher is not satisfied that this is because he is ill or the absence is unavoidable.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2089/regulation/8/made
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2089/regulation/9/made

southofthethames · 27/04/2011 17:46

OP, if you want to be certain, why not ring your LEA?

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 27/04/2011 18:41

mrz - the 1995 Act was revoked by the 2006 Act I believe. However there is still the provision for exceptional circumstance.

mrz · 27/04/2011 18:58

Leave of absence7.?(1) Leave of absence may only be granted by a person authorised in that behalf by the proprietor of the school.(2) Leave of absence shall not be granted to enable a pupil to undertake employment (whether paid or unpaid) during school hours except?(a)employment for the purpose of taking part in a performance within the meaning of section 37 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1963(1) under the authority of a licence granted by the local authority under that section; or(b)employment abroad for the purpose mentioned in section 25 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933(2) where a licence has been granted under that section by a justice of the peace.(3) Subject to paragraph (4), a pupil may be granted leave of absence from the school to enable him to go away on holiday where ?(a)an application has been made in advance to the proprietor by a parent with whom the pupil normally resides; and(b)the proprietor, or a person authorised by the proprietor in accordance with paragraph (1), considers that leave of absence should be granted due to the special circumstances relating to that application.(4) Save in exceptional circumstances, a pupil shall not in pursuance of paragraph (3) be granted more than ten school days leave of absence in any school year.

mrz · 27/04/2011 18:58

sorry that's from the 2006 legislation
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1751/regulation/7/made

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