Primary private vs secondary private education

[Beth1234]

Hi there,

I can afford, either primary or secondary private education for my child. I'm totally confused as to whether to chose to educate my child privately in primary or in secondary. Will really appreciate your thoughts/ views & mainly experience on which is better to privately educate?

Many thanks
Beth

Private secondary is about twice the cost of prep.

I chose prep with a view to state secondary or possibly scholarship to independent (can't afford secondary fees). Did it mostly because the prep offered fab wraparound care and my CM had decided she wouldn't do the school run to our local state school. She then changed her mind but upped her fees so much that prep was the cheaper option.

Some I know chose prep because they believe if a child doesn't get into the habit of learning and enjoying education at primary age it is too late by the time they get to secondary. I'd agree with that.

We are out of county but in catchment for grammar school but I'm reluctant to send Ds there as there is a lot of pressure put on the children (school expects private tutoring to ensure children keep up). I went to an academic grammar but never had that kind of pressure (no league tables when I was at school).

Hope to do both, a scholarship would certainly help.

Private primary was important to us as we both feel that the ages from 9 - 13 are when most of the solid foundation is done. Working in a state school made me very aware that there were certain things I wanted done differently for my DS during those ages.

I would look closely at where the children go from your local state primary. If a fair proportion get into academic schools after state (and maybe tutoring), you may want to save your money. However, I agree with Mollie0 in the sense that good foundations need to be laid if a child is going to succeed. Only you could judge whether your local primary provides that.

depends
my kids are in a fantastic state primary school, so wouldn't consider paying for private as i don't believe they would get anything extra
re secondary, well let's see where they get into and where their skills lie.

it's not as simple as primary or secondary is more useful than the other. depends on the schools, depends on your wraparound needs, depends on your child. if my child was struggling in state primary i would have them out fast - once you're behind it is hard to catch up in a class of 30.

If you want the best for your child, then enrol her in a prep school where class numbers will be as low as sixteen in key stage 1. In key stage 2 class numbers will rise to no more than twenty children per class compared to thirty plus in a state school primary. This is where the difference really starts to have an impact on their education. In state schools teachers have 30 plus children to teach with maybe help from one classroom assistant, in this class you may have
children with special needs who will take up most of the time of the classroom assistant, also you may have children who just do not wish to be there,who will go out of the way to disrupt the class. All this things effect your child's own education and even if they are bright they may not reach their own potential. Prep schools give children a good all round education, these children are not pushed but helped to reach their own potential, they do not have discipline problems due I expect from lower class numbers. They play a lot of sport, they are taught to swim at an early age, your child would be lucky indeed to have swimming in reception in a state primary, they also play rugby, football, netball, hockey and other sports, they are generally very fit and play other schools in team games which the children get a lot of satisfaction from, hence these children develope confidence at an early age.
If any one thinks the cost will be way above what they can afford then look into it you may be surprised, I really think that any one who could afford to do this would never regret it. I have seen both sides of the picture - state versus private and have seen enough I think to make this comment.

My cousin who is teacher would say state primary and private secondary -based on the premis that a bright child will do well in any primary school, but may need the greater focus at secondary level that private can provide.

Agree with everything mumsapoppet says about private primary though - my DD is in Y6 and they have been swimming since nursery, are very competitive with sport etc and seem to do so much more than the state primaries in my area.

At our state primary we have classes of less than 20 in YR-Y3 and 25 in Y4-Y6. Swimming every year from Y1. And they don't do a lot of rugby, fencing, archery and silk painting, but the money I save not sending them private can pay for extracurricular stuff.

We do live in a rural area though. Secondary is a whole different kettle of fish.

If you want your child to attend a private secondary school then you really need to get them into the private sector before that. I say this because it is very competitive to get into independent senior schools and there is such a hugh difference in what is taught at state primary and private primary. It doesn't matter whether the state school is in the depths of the countryside, the private sector is a year ahead. Good Luck

I live in an area with excellent state primaries and have gone for the state primary/private secondary route - which a lot of people round here do. Obviously the standard of the schools in your area makes a big difference, but even if you need to do a bit of tutoring before the 11+ exams I think it's worth saving the money for secondary. Seems to me a really good secondary education will totally make up for an average primary education, but it's unlikely to work the other way round.

We are doing private primary and not really sure about secondary. We are in a grammar area so if our DCs pass the 11t, we will favour the grammar.

Around here, passing the 11plus also guarantees some sort of scholarship with the indies.

Private primary instills a good working ethic. Children start the secondary school ethic at Y8 encouraging independence and responsibility. Specialist subject teaching, exposure to science, ICT and D & T labs at age 8 is brilliant. Competitive team sports with other schools in football, netball , hockey and rugby is also good.

Thank you all so very much for your responses. Really really appreciate it.

Most of you's who have gone for private primary route, what are your thoughts about secondary for both state or grammar schools pls? Will you be sending your kids to a state secondary or a Grammar secondary then pls?

If a state secondary, my only concern is my child may not progress well in GCSE O and A (being the most important) level in a state secondary hence my initial decision of State primary and Private secondary.

Would appreciate your thoughts/ decisions on this pls?

Thanks heaps again

Beth x

I really would have thought it all depends on the schools around you. What are all the state and private school actually like?

I most important crieria would be this, I'm afraid, as I think it is much harder to give generalised information where all schools can vary so much in their ethos, strengths and weaknesses.

No idea at this stage as Ds only in yr 2. In an ideal world he will get a scholarship to a public school! More likely he will either go to the local grammar or if he is not academically able he will go to private non selective school attached to his prep. He will be trying for a choral scholarship in yr 3 so I'll have a better idea then. If he passes he won't be changing schools until 13 and the resulting choices will be different.

Personally, chose State Primary because out of all the primaries I looked at in our area - private and state - it was the one we liked the best. A bonus is that the dds are fairly privileged, and I would much rather they got to mix with a wide range of different backgrounds than be stuck in the bubble they could so easily get into. I do worry slightly about the future - local state secondaries, at the moment, are not great - but ethos/values/pastoral care are high on my list of priorities, and the school's results are good too.
Secondary I have no idea - dd1 only in Y2 at the moment. There are various options near us, some private and more or less selective, others state and, hopefully, improving - but not yet good.
As for sport, music etc - dd does a lot of drama, music, dance, in and out of school, and swimming out of school hours (they start at Y3 in school). And there are plenty of good clubs at school, an excellent basketball team, etc.....but I have to be honest: a school that prioritizes masses of competitive sport would have made me shudder as a child, and I'm afraid the dds are showing signs of following in my not-very-sporty footsteps

At my child's school there is a vast range of children from different faiths, far to many to list. The school has a strong ethos, good values and pastoral care is very important to the school. The school does a lot of different sports, but it does not put this before anything else, a lot of sport (such as team squads) is voluntary after school etc. Children are selected to take part in team matches, so it follows that only children who want to take part, do so. Children who do not want to take part or do not excel in sport are not forced into it. These children only have to take part in games or P.E during lessons. My child loves sport and to see her face when she comes home with that permission slip with her name listed on it, makes me well up with pride. No way would I ever push my child into something she didn't want to do. I am just sorry that I may have given this impression earlier. I would say that having experienced a prep school and have had first hand knowledge of a local state primary, I know state primaries vary vastly. I now would never take my child out of prep school and put her into a state primary.

The choice depends on your child - their intelligence and their personality. I disagree that a non-sporty child will be quite happy "just" doing PE and games lessons whilst everyone else opts in to the extra curricular sport at their sporty private school. The amount of sport done in a school DOES affect the ethos - besides which, how cr*p are you going to feel if you rarely do sport whilst everyone else is forging ahead in the county teams and therefore making you look like a complete twit in the school PE lessons??? Sounds all very jolly hockey sticks to me and not genuinely enjoyable to anyone other than the "team player" or the acceptable "clever nerd." Anyone not quite clever enough or not quite sporty enough... would be like my eldest db, who went to a school very much like this and hated it. However, if sport is your cup of tea, it's a dream come true and shouldn't be missed out on. (Might be depressing to go on to a non-sporty state secondary, though).

And as for the academic differences... consider the problems of moving on to the state sector for secondary and being bored rigid for two or three years whilst everyone else catches up, because you were a reasonably bright spark in your private primary and had lots of time and attention lavished on you to get you a long way ahead. What will happen to your "work ethic" during that catch-up time, if you really are that far ahead (my dsis's disappeared out of the window, never to return, when she went on to state grammar school)? Maybe, therefore, if you are a very bright child, moving on to private secondary from state primary would be better, as you might thrive on the catching up you have to do, rather than doing it the other way round... If you are not quite such a bright child, though, maybe being in smaller classes for private primary would be better, as you would indeed then be well set up for state secondary and wouldn't realise for quite some time that actually some people who started at a lower level than you were actually quite a lot cleverer than you - so you would retain your self-confidence and self-esteem for longer.

And I don't believe that a very bright child will fail to get into an academic private school for secondary level if they were state educated to the age of 11 - not if they are genuinely very bright and self-motivated. Maybe if they are pretty average, they need to opt into private education asap, or miss the boat later on...

We are doing state primary and private secondary. Our local primary school is superb, my DC's are both in the top groups for all subjects and are easily working to the same level as their private school peers. They do plenty of competitive sport, both in school and out of school and I wouldn't move them if I won the lottery tomorrow. The school has a strong history of children getting into the most academic secondary schools in the country and many families have children in both state and private schools. I am so pleased that we saved our money for primary as we really don't see the need to be paying fees at the moment.

Still say it comes down to a) individual child and b) what schools are in your area (I still think our state primary is all round a healthier, happier school than the private ones I looked at - but I'm sure there are some wonderful independent primaries around elsewhere!). As well as finances, obviously.

Momsapoppet, I didn't think you gave the impression of pushing your child in your first post. Re the variety of faiths, though, that wasn't the only variety I was seeking in my dds' peer group going through primary - variety of backgrounds includes a whole heap of other cultural differences, which I'm not sure could be replicated in independent school because of, to be blunt, money. But I do realize that having kids mix with a wide range of socio-economic pals might not be a priority for everyone - it just happens to be something we wanted for our two.

I'm not at all anti-independent. I went to a very happy one, as a child (in a different city). But the local ones didn't do it for me, and the state primary did.

Plus, apropos of nothing much, several Y6 kids got into top grammar school recently....untutored, in some cases. Bright kids can, if they so wish.

Elibean - I do so agree with your last comment, bright kids can, if they so wish. I think you are very lucky to have good state schools in your area.

My daughter started at prep school when she went into the nursery at 3+ because I needed her to be in childcare full time. The intention was not at that point to enrol her in the school, but once she had been there for a time, we realised that we wanted her to go into reception with the children that she had made friends with in nursery. The school was small and very friendly, all the teachers knew all the pupils names and vice versa, it was a very lovely school,so I became converted. But I realise that there are some very good state primaries although sadly not in my area.

rabbit stew you are describing my experiences of private primary school and state (grammar) secondary.

Thank you all extremely lovely and helpful people.

I thoroughly appreciate your kind thoughts/ experiences/ input.

You all have helped me conclude with state primary and private secondary.

Thanks again,

Lots of luv

Beth x

I agree with Elibean. I think some private prep schools are rather bubble-like. The facilities are all so magnificent, the children all so earnest and keen, the classes all so fantastically manageable, the teachers all so committed. It really makes me want to poke a large pin into it all. I'm sure the children all really love it and it undoubtedly gives a fantastic academic grounding (there are some extremely "good" private schools around here, sending their progeny on to the best public schools), but it is uncomfortably removed from life as the vast majority of people know it and the children all give the impression they are blissfully unaware of this fact. This all-round niceness on the basis of never having any reason to be anything else is off putting, because it is so very separate. Most of these children would hate to go on to the local comprehensive after that.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a constant battle in my head - do I want my children to be able to fit in with everyone else, or do I want them to live life in a bubble and become the next Prime Minister? And how "real" do I want their lives to be? I certainly don't want "reality" to be too rough and unkind for them. Or is the next tier down of private school more "real" - and would you pay for that, if you realised you could get your education for free if you stepped in one direction, or could get "the best" if you stepped in the other?

What, at the end of the day, do I actually want for my children? I realise that I don't actually want "the best" for them, because like designer clothes and the most expensive holidays, I don't actually think it is "the best." But then it leaves me wondering what I do want. Good enough and an ability to hold your own in any situation, I guess. And if I can get that from the State, then that seems like money well not spent. It's just a question of knowing what good enough is and how not to get distracted by the perks that money can buy. That is really difficult, because some of the perks are exceptionally tempting and some are genuinely useful (but to the extent that if you don't get them before age 11, you are excluded altogether???). My general conclusion so far is that a reasonable state primary is good enough if I have to make a choice between private primary and private secondary and cannot afford both. At secondary level, maybe the facilities, subjects offered and contacts made are more important if you have very middle class ambitions for your children, and a private school might be tempting for those reasons. And at least by secondary school age, I will know my own children's strengths and weaknesses better and will be able to judge more accurately what sort of school might suit them, next - and involve them a bit in the choices, too.

Ah. Wasted post! I shouldn't start a post, wander off to make tea, type again and not pay attention to what's happened in the meantime...