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Primary education

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Original poster

Organising exemption from religious assemblies - pros and cons

40 replies

Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 11:08

Have you done it and why?
Have you done it and regretted it for unforeseen reasons?

Where we are, there is no non-religious state option for schooling, otherwise we would be doing that.

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prh47bridge · 07/04/2011 11:19

There is no non-religious state option anywhere. All state schools are required by law to have a daily act of collective worship which must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character. Many schools flout the law and only have an assembly once a week but that is the law. It is not uncommon to find state schools that offer more Christian teaching than the local church schools.

I have not taken my child out of assemblies and I would never do so. They would certainly be in a tiny minority, possibly a minority of one. They may feel left out, with all their friends being permitted to attend assembly, and it is possible they may miss important notices. However, that's just my view. Don't let me stop you!

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 11:23

That was my feeling too, but as I learn more about what they are actually being told and how, I am less and less happy with just going with the flow.

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prh47bridge · 07/04/2011 11:35

What are they being told that concerns you? And where are you getting your information?

I know that some of the parents in my area firmly believe that the faith schools teach creation "science" and tell children that evolution is a myth. They don't. And that is just one of many rumours about what is allegedly taught/said in assembly in the faith schools, all either completely untrue or a huge distortion of what actually happens. I would therefore check the facts carefully.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 11:41

It's not creationism (which is so daft as to not be a worry for us and I don't think all that many Christians go for it either).

I've been to a few assemblies and it is nothing like the 'here are some Bible stories, they are good lessons in life' that I imagined - and which is often touted on here as being the norm for schools, too. Some schools, yes. ours, no.

So the evidence is coming from my own eyes and ears.

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cumbria81 · 07/04/2011 11:42

I really don't get why people are so up in arms about their kids attending assembly.

We all had assembly every day for years and years and how many of us turned out to be bible bashing nut cases? it's just a bit of singing and praying and some stories. I really think people overthink it. if your child believes in God- so what? it's their choice, not yours.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 11:44

If it was just that, I wouldn't be bothered (as I have said). Smile

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chopchopbusybusy · 07/04/2011 11:45

So what is it then?

JWIM · 07/04/2011 11:52

I can only give you a personal insight from secodary school.

I went to a 'community' comprehensive where a catholic priest came in once a week to run an alternative assembly for catholic pupils. I went to this instead of the usual assembly - felt 'different' and stopped going/priest stopped coming in after the first two years.

If you are not in agreement with what is included in the assembly, but don't want to withdraw your child, why not just have your conversations about your views as well at home?

It is clear from many threads that parents often have differing views/approaches to their child's education compared to what their child's school is providing across the curriculum. The choice of removing a child and only exposing them to what you, as a parent want them to learn, is an option, otherwise, if you want/need your child to be taught in the school system then you need to find compromises that will work for your DC. This may mean acceptiing something that does not work absolutely for you.

MyWildAnimals · 07/04/2011 11:54

I think as a parent you don't want your child to start feeling guilty and conflicted if they are having it pushed on them at school that believing in God is the 'right thing to do' - and if they (and their family) don't, they are being disloyal / naughty somehow.

MyWildAnimals · 07/04/2011 11:56

I also don't think it's good for children at the start of their school experience to have their parents telling them one thing and their teachers/school vicar another.

Yes, later on then it's good for them to be able to assess conflicting evidence and opinions for themselves and make up their own minds, but at the age of 4 or 5 it is too confusing imo.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 11:59

What I would like to see (and I know other parents who feel the same ) is far, far more children withdrawn. Then it wouldn't be one kid left behind alone.
But we all feel roughly the same: let's not draw attention to it too much in case they think it's something special, in case they get seen as different.
It feels very wrong to me.

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Fennel · 07/04/2011 12:01

We have considered it, dds go to the local community (not a faith) school. This school invites members of the community to come in and do assemblies and clubs, the evangelical groups do this. So there are run-of-the-mill vague woffly assemblies, and then every few weeks a notorious "Thomas assembly" in which Thomas the evangelical curate comes and gives a full-on evangelical message. We wondered about asking for the dds not to go to Thomas Assemblies, but in the end they would miss other bits of school life by missing assemblies, and we don't mind them hearing about religions. we would rather they were not told what was right, as they are in the Thomas Assemblies. It grates, I don't think my children should be subjected to this at school. But we keep on discussing things at home. and I tell them they can be exempted if they want. they dither on that.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 12:05

Yes I can relate to that, Fennel.

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IndigoBell · 07/04/2011 12:08

If you feel strongly about it - do it.

Your child might be the only one excluded - might not. Totally depends on the school.

But even if they are the only one. So what?

As long as you are happy explaining to your child why they don't go to assembly (if and when they ask) it matters not at all.....

IndigoBell · 07/04/2011 12:10

Too much emphasis is placed on conformity in the UK
Much more so than in some other cultures.....

If you want your DC to grow up to be a conformist, then don't exclude them.

But if you don't mind them not always conforming - then excluding them from assemblies will start to show them that.....

Fennel · 07/04/2011 12:11

My evangelical Christian parents considered exempting us from RE and school assemblies in our C of E primary, because they weren't religious enough. Back in those days it would have been more of a big deal I think.

My strongly evangelical christain upbringing has resulted in 2 of my parents' 3 children being fairly raving atheists, which means that though I object, Dawkins-style, to religion in schools, I also feel rather competent to discuss the issues which come up.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 12:22

IndigoBell, it isn't as simple as that.
The school (quite rightly) makes a big thing of the 'school community', which we are all part of. I am no conformist myself, but I like the values of community, of taking part, and I like the spirit of relaxed performance that they have.

When they tie that to a religious agenda, I am not happy, but if I remove my child from the religious portion, I exclude him from the good, important bits too.

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mashedbananaontoast · 07/04/2011 12:34

I was taken out of assemblies for religious reasons & really struggled with the segregation & I absolutely hated everyone turning round & staring (every morning without fail!) when the "different" children were brought in for notices.

When I was around 14 or so I just went in anyway & never told my parents - the teachers didn't question it. I was physically in assembly, but I did not actually "worship" & never said Amen or joined in with hymns.

Strangely enough my Mum was talking to an old school friend the other day who said that she felt sorry for my Mum staying out of assembly & everyone staring when she went in at the end - my Mum replied that yes, she too hated it - but must have forgotten those memories when she put me through the same!

These days schools promote "difference" & acknowledge other faiths way more than in the 1970's & 80's. Assemblies bring a sense of togetherness for a school and it is great shame if all children are not included in this.

IloveJudgeJudy · 07/04/2011 12:54

The thing about assemblies it that usually it's about talking about good/bad things that some DC have done, what's the right choice to take, celebrating certificates for music, sport.....

Also, it teaches the DC to sit and listen to others, join in celebrating, take notice of what's being said to them. Also, at my DC's old primary every now and then a particular class would take the assembly to which the parents would then be invited. It was lovely.

I wouldn't take out, I would just discuss what happened in school at home and leave the DC to think what they like.

ForkfulOfTabouleh · 07/04/2011 15:31

OP "What I would like to see (and I know other parents who feel the same ) is far, far more children withdrawn. Then it wouldn't be one kid left behind alone."

I totally agree with the above. Not come across this yet as DS is only 3.6 but I am very cross at the thought of the worship foisted on me during my schooling.

DH and I don't practice a religion so why our DS needs to I don't know. I absolutely would like him to learn about different faiths/believes as part of culture/history/geography/philosophy etc but not to be told things as fact which are beliefs and not to have to worship himself.

I bet if this was couched in terms of opt-in there would be a massive difference - eg "do you want your DC to "worship" at school" - a no thanks = secular part of assembly/ yes please = religious assembly. I am pretty certain that there are more non-religious parents than religious ones!

Presumably in predominanty non-Christian intakes - eg Muslim they are not saying the Lord's Prayer!

What happens if DC are in as assembly and don't say the prayer/put hands together/shut eyes etc?

OP - could you share more of what you have seen at the assemblies you have attended? How can you work out what "line" a particular faith/non-faith school takes before you apply etc?

Anyone seen this article about teaching Atheism?

The British Humanist Association campaigns on this issue.

BHA suggests that people give their views to the DoE wrt to the National Curriculum review to get balanced RE into the NC (instead of locally agreed curriculum) - deadline for submission 14 April.

IndigoBell · 07/04/2011 15:51

I guess academies won't have to have assemblies of a 'broadly Christian nature' if they don't want to?

ForkfulOfTabouleh · 07/04/2011 18:03

Indigo - I can't believe they would come out side the legislation wrt to collective worship?

The British Humanist Society's campaign about RE and the National Curriculum has inspired me to start an AIBU - which can be found here.

IndigoBell · 07/04/2011 18:51

Acadamies don't have to follow the national curriculum. So I'd be very surprised if the had to follow the daily act of worship. But I don't know that for sure. Does anyone else?

JengaJane · 07/04/2011 19:02

It really depends on the school. My dcs attended a non-faith school that was disturbingly Christian - it wasn't just the assembly, the RE teaching was OTT - teaching Christianity as fact and their weekly music session consisted entirely of hymms, so withdrawing them from assembly would only have been half a solution. In the end I did what I really didn't want to have to do and I went against the teacher - told them not to believe everything she said in RE, told them she had her beliefs and she confused these beliefs with facts, I gave them permission not to put their hands together to pray - they could do if they wanted but whatever the did they had to stand quietly.

Eventually we moved schools and the problem solved itself - no more God worshiping - they say Amen at the end of assembly but that's it. RE lessons are much more balanced. They pray when a visiting clergy member comes in - to be polite...I still find it all a bit odd - all this God worshipping but they see it as part of school and although I'd rather not have any God worshipping at all, I can deal with the new lower key version.

Praying when you don't believe is incredibly dull and a total waste of time - I know, I was forced to endure it for all my school years and my hatred of all things religious increased with every dull prayer...I had hoped to allow my dcs to escape the daily torture.

Original poster
Prunnhilda · 08/04/2011 09:30

Been thinking about this more. I went to a CofE school and there was less religion there than I am seeing in this school, despite weekly assemblies led by the chaplain. It is so backwards that the amount and type of teaching of religion as fact (and linking it to emotional development) is determined by the personal beliefs of the staff and head teacher. I'm a bit horrified to be honest.

All you people who say 'they hardly get any of it in school anyway, what are you worried about?' - please recognise that this isn't true in every school (and might not be in yours! I had no idea).

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