Organising exemption from religious assemblies - pros and cons

[Prunnhilda]

Have you done it and why?
Have you done it and regretted it for unforeseen reasons?

Where we are, there is no non-religious state option for schooling, otherwise we would be doing that.

Blast. I just looked it up. Even academies still have to do the daily act of collective worship.

Truly incredible. They don't have to follow the national curriculum but they do have to have a daily act of worship.......

I have a question. Our community (not faith) primary invites community members to come in and give assemblies and run clubs. Only the evangelical Christian groups go in. So the children are getting a fairly strong dose of evangelism. Various atheist and non-religious parents have complained about this. The school's response is that it welcomes people from other groups and would like more diversity in assemblies. We live in a little village that does not have much religious diversity. DP wants us to go in and do an Atheist assembly. I am not keen. I suppose my view is that atheism/lack of religion is not something you evangelise for or feel compelled to go in and convert children to. To go in and do an assembly to me suggests a need to convert. But DP would like to try and redress the balance of the evangelical messages the children are getting on a regular basis.

WWYD? fellow non-religious types?

If your DP would like to explain his viewpoint and the school is happy to consider it then I would suggest it is a way forward. Please don't think that assembly is to draw children to a particular cause/religion/viewpoint. It is an opportunity to offer them food for thought.

As for those who are complaining at your school but choosing to do nothing when presented with an opportunity - it was ever thus.

It's a difficult one, Fennel.
I agree, what is there to promote? The school will be doing moral and social development in the same ways I assume you would.

I was kept out of assembly at infants school. I didn't feel left out really but literally just had to sit just outside the hall with the jehovas witness children. It would have been better to have given me something to do. I remember there being a bit of a to-do when I was six and the school aranged a visit to a church for the harvest festival. IIRC my mum and dad asked me what I wanted to do.

in secondary school I went to assemblies but felt like the odd one out as almost everyone else prayed.

The ones who are complaining on this issue are not the ones doing nothing, they are members of the governing body, they are trustees of the pre-school, the ones who organise the PTA events, who raise money for the school playground, who have been in to talk about their jobs for Science Day and People Who Help day. Our school is quite good on that, it has a lot of keen involved parents. And many of these do not adhere to any religion and would prefer their children to have a secular education.

This is the issue, we would like a secular style education. One where there are no daily acts of worship (or thrice weekly in our school).

Also I think it is easier to understand atheism once you've covered quite a lot of science in the curriculum, there are strong links between Darwinism and atheism, say, and between the notion of scientific proof and evidence and ways of assessing the strengths of belief. Not easy to get across to small children who haven't got to that stage of education.

Fennel it looks like you are back to the basic issue that it is the law and until that is changed a state secular education is not going to happen. As to how each school applies the law, even if the parents in your school offer support in other areas of school life, if they have an opportunity to present an alternative view then why not take it up? Or is it that the action they want to secure is that the school is not open to the Christian group(s) coming in?

That is DP's argument, JWIM.

I would rather the strongly evangelical groups were not allowed in, and then we would not feel the need to go in and provide counter-arguments. I don't think the younger kids in particular are up to rational debate, so I'd rather leave it til they are secondary age.

I tell my dc they are too young to really know about religion/atheism and need to know more about the world before they can make an informed decision. but this is undermined by the 3-pronged evangelical christianity misssions aimed at them. (via the school, via the neighbour, via my parents). It's made me more itchy about the whole thing, I wanted to leave this for a while, let them grow and experience a bit of life, and meanwhile the evangelical christians appear to be making bee-lines for my kids. And i grew up in evangelical christianity so I do know very well how deliberate this is, and what strategies they use and why. This knowledge makes me less blase about it.

Fennel I sympathise with your anxiety given your heightened awareness/experience. However, who should determine which views religious or otherwise are acceptable to present to children (or anyone for that matter) across the curriculum? There will always be areas of school life that some parents might want handled differently. How should differences of opinion across the parent body be reconciled?

Fennel - I would be furious if I knew that people of any religion whose mission was to 'convert' were allowed access to my child's young impressionable mind during school time. It's outrageous.

You shouldn't have to be in the position of having to go in and provide counter-arguments yourself, either. It's just not appropriate.

Maybe - MAYBE - in a sixth-form debating type setting it might be just about acceptable to invite 'guest speakers' to try and make their points for discussion, but at primary school assembly it just beggars belief that any type of evangelism is facilitated by the school.

Keep the complaining loud and organised would be my suggestion.

OP
I went to CofE schools till 18. Assembly every day. Lords Prayer, hymns, the whole shebang.
I am now an extremely well informed Atheist.
The UK is one of the few countries in the world with compulsory RE in state schools.
It also has one of the highest rates of secularism / atheism.
Go figure.
In the USA, RE is banned in state schools so the poison that kids get at home is not diluted / counteracted by independent teaching. Have you BEEN to the Bible belt?
My kids attended a CofE Primary. My mother used to take them to Church.
They have now both, in an informed manner, become atheists and told my mum so politely that she is not bothered.
If you "ban" religion it becomes something to discover and explore - surely not what you want.

I went to a church of england school at 11. i was an athiest and had no religious affiliation. in fact the only one who identified as such. the assemblies rolled off my back. by the time i was fifteen about a third of the class were also atheists.

i'm not sure how i would feel if my five year olds were at a faith school (though i recently decided not to send my kids to a faith school which has better teaching because i couldn't stand all the stuff they'd be taught).

i tell my kids now that some people believe that jesus had magic powers (or words to that effect) but i don't, and then i tell them all the bible stories that seem morally relevant (particularly around christmas). i say it's up to them to make up their mind. i've told them bits about judaism too. haven't got onto islam yet (I am a religiously informed athiest!).

some of them are pretty gruesome. noah's ark always seems very cruel to me. allt hose animals and people drowned.

are you comfortable doing this, or do you feel that this will antagonise the school just as much?

we had absolutely no god at my seventies state primary school. those were the days.

We will almost certainly withdraw DC from religious part of assembly, when I went to school there were a few kids who were withdrawn and nobody batted an eyelid. The more parents exercise the right to withdraw, the less 'left out' kids will feel.

Btw schools should ensure that by missing the religious part of assembly, pupils are not put at a disadvantage by missing other sections of assembly.

How do your children feel about potentially being removed from assembly? They might actually enjoy assemblies, and enjoy joining in with the singing and the inclusion of the whole school being together. They might not be at all bothered by the "religious" side of it, and removing them from assembly might make them feel isolated and different from their friends and peers. They might even feel upset or disappointed that they are being forbidden by you to join in. Have you asked them?

Fennel - if you want to do an assembly, why not do the kind where children listen to a story about people being kind / generous / good and make it clear that the good person is good because that is the right thing to do, not because god said so. Religious groups like to think that only religion provides morality, and providing examples to counter that might be much more useful at primary age than arguing about Darwin/evolution.

I hope you find some solution you are happy with.