How to deal with this? its breaking my heart :(

[ktbabe]

my 7 year old daughter has pretty much always had issues making friends. She is currently in year 2 and has had this problem since the reception class. The other kids will speak to her in passing or in the classroom, but playtime and any other activity (school trips, discos etc) they wont say a single word to her.

She has just come back from her very first school disco that she was really excited about, and told me she never ever wants to go to one again. I asked my son who was also at this disco (hes in year 4) what happened and he said she was just sat in a corner the whole time looking sad.

We have tried playdates, inviting kids in her class over for tea and even arranging to meet at the local park on weekends. All to no avail. The kids either decline, dont turn up, or turn up and dont speak/play with my daughter, but rather play on their own or do their own thing.

I spoke to her teacher about this twice since september, and her year 1 teacher was also aware of this (infact, she was the one that told me about it at a parents evening). Both teachers said they would try getting her to mix with the other kids, well it doesnt seem to be working :(

How do i handle this? she is very, very unhappy.

OMG that's horrible :(

I know this is a really awful question but can you think of any reason she might be less 'likeable' than the others?

So the teachers said they will try to get her to mix more... Well HOW exactly? What have they tried, do you have any evidence they are doing anything?

To me, although there is no violence, this extreme level of exclusion is bullying.

Not an awful question :) I have tried to think of reasons she would be 'less likeable', and there just doesnt seem to be anything. She is always clean, polite, doesnt shout and doesnt have a violent bone in her body, shes helpful according to her teachers and is always the first person to comfort an upset kid in any year not just her class. Out of all of my children she is the most laid back.

The only thing that could make her stand out? I have no idea..she does wear glasses but there are a couple of other kids in her class that also wear glasses. So i dont think its that. I just dont get why shes being treated like this :(

I have no evidence of anything the teachers are doing to help, it was just verbally said that they would try getting her to mix with the other children. We do have another parents evening coming up next week so I will again mention this but in all honesty i doubt there is anything they can do - they cant force other children to play/be friends with my daughter :( I just wish there was something I could do to help her :(

Oh that's heartbreaking, that image of her sitting on her own

I see you don't have any idea what is the cause of this. Is she just very very shy? Does she try to talk to people at playtime etc?

Is there a nice mum with a nice DD whom you can turn to for sympathy and ask her DD to be friendly with yrs?

Does she do any clubs outside school that can help her learn to socialise (dance class, Brownies, karate, football, Cubs, gymnastics)?

Is she shy or/and very quiet? Do you see her socialising with any other children out of school to give you any ideas why other children ignore her? They don't seem to reject her though?

I had and still have concerns about my DS's socialising. He is a friendly, outgoing boy, but at nursery and reception he kept saying no-one is my friend. Nursery said he was fine and I saw him chatting at dinner time. In reception I noticed that he was trying too hard to make friends and felt insecure in the large group. He started clinging to certain children who then soon rejected him. His teacher said it was DS who refuses to play with some children because they are 'not his friend'. Now in Y1 he has had one friend for a year now who doesn't seem to mind. Then sometimes he seems to just disrupt other childrens' play rather than to ask whether he can join in. And other times he plays very nicely? His teacher is aware and she seems to agree that he needs work on his social skills. I am confused.

Poor thing.
Clary has a point about outside school activities. Brownies, dance etc all opportunities for developing friendships over a common activity. Also chance to make friends from other schools. Big believer in not all eggs in one basket.

Does school have friendship bench at playtimes?
Yr6 kids at ours also act as play leaders for KS1 kids a couple of lunchtimes.

Could you seek out head of pastoral care at school for chat?

She sounds lovely.
Is it possibly that all the other girls (I'm assuming, like my dd also 7, they are pretty much keeping in their own gender groups at play) already knew each other before they started school?
Dd's teacher (who I love) makes a point of swapping all the kids round about once a month, so they all sit next to someone different. I invariably find that dd will come home after a few days and say "Georgia is my friend now" as if before she wasn't IYSWIM? I wonder if there's some sort of 7 yr old psychology where unless a proper "would you like to be friends with me" thing is done, they feel they automatically aren't.
If I lived near you, dd would be her friend. Would she like a penfriend in Italy? (seriously, dd would love it, she already writes to a couple of people)

That sounds hard. There is a girl in my DD's class who is like this. She was silent in reception and is still very quiet, plays just with her brother at breaktimes. DD teamed up with her for a bit - when she had friendship issues with some other girls - and we invited her round for a playdate. Her parents both told me that she has no friends and will thrilled... then said they wouldn't be inviting DD back because they don't do that .

I do think inviting children round one at a time is helpful, but I would get them doing crafts, baking or playing a game with you. That way DD gets to interact with another child without having to be so pro-active - and the other child has fun. That's just a tiny step I know. I would talk to teacher again and ask advice. My DD's teacher quite often has great ideas about how to handle things, but needs to be asked. So many parents take offence that teachers are wary of offering advice I think.

Oh no poor thing. I think a lot of children have trouble with this and it's something they grow out of as time goes on.

Have you thought about seeing if there's a local brownie/rainbow unit she could go along to? Maybe one which has a mix of girls from her own school and other local kids? Maybe if she has a few friends with something in common then it will transfer to the playground?

My ds1 is a little like this - he is quiet and sensitive and easily overwhelmed by lots of noise. I remember taking him on a playdate once with two other boys, and went into their playroom to find him sat hiding under a table .

He was at an all boys school until year 3 but moved to a mixed school and is much happier now - his class is very friendly, calm and relaxed. He socialises with everyone now. It wasn't anyone's "fault", he just fits in better in this school.

I'd second the idea of friends and activities outside school. There's nothing wrong with being quiet and sensitive, provided it isn't making your dd unhappy.

School should be doing something to address this.

Make a proper appointment with the teacher to discuss this, and to find out exactly what she is and will be doing.

There are loads and loads of things school can do.

(As well as all the stuff you can and will do at home.)

Oh poor you, and your poor DD. Mine is a little bit like this. In nursery she did not seem to be liked by the other girls. At parties the girls would all play together and my DD would be left alone. She too was always kind to anyone who had hurt themselves or had a disability. When she moved to kindergarten again she did not seem to have any close friends, but things have got better and I am sure they will for your DD too. Mine is 11 now. She has friends and does get invited to parties and sleepovers, but she is rarely anyone's first choice.

Like you I simply do not understand it as of course, I think she is lovely. Other mothers often comment to me that their DD has said how understanding my DD had been when they were upset/hurt etc, and then dish out an exciting invitation to another girl.

My DD tends to get on better with people slightly older than herself. I just hope that as she gets older she grows into herself iyswim.

Persevere with inviting friends round for tea/to play, but definitely one at a time. Or maybe take another girl on a trip out to a play park or similar when you would have the opportunity to watch how your DD interacts with another child. I always refused to lay on activities for children when they came to play, but I think in your situation you might have to to ensure that things keep moving along.

We ended up buying my DD a dog. Even the bloody dog ignores her most of the time

ExitPursued -your DD sounds just like my 18 year old's life. She has had a few good years recently but is currently going through a bad phase on the friendship front again. I have talked to numerous teachers and psychologists and it is still a bit of a mysterty as she is pretty, trendy and is OCD about looking and behaving normally in case anyone is put out. It still makes me (in private) shed tears.We are also very welcoming to friends and generous with activities, parties etc.

ktbabe - I wish in the early years I had pursued the school more for DD as we were always told it would get better and I tend to feel they just fobbed us off but we learnt our lesson and did hound the school more to good effect when my DS had probs in yr3.
Make an appointment to see her Yr2 teacher, stress that it is an ongoing situation and has not improved over the infant years (could also say you are woriied about "school refusal" - they hate that). The school should have a policy on dealing with this - playground pals for example - older kids who play with you and get you involved in group games if you are lonely (and follow up that they have done this - I was told - oh we have this etc but it didn't actually happen in practice for my DD). Some schools have a SEAL programme - you go to a group and learn/talk about emotional intelligence issues, role play etc to help you approach groups and people. My sons school set up a quiet area with board games at break/lunch that children could go to and when the TA funding ran out staffed it with volunteers and yr6. Is there anyone your DD partciularly likes? the teacher can change seating plans so that your DD is on that table and partnered for activities and friendships may develop (this really helped my son and I reinforced it by being thick skinned about playdates). I know that the non-invites to parties etc and non reciprocation of playdates is very disheartening but just bang on with it and invite the parents in for coffee etc.
I used to also lay on craft and art activities or cake making if things got quiet on playdates.
Will your DD be in the same class all the way thorugh or are there other classes in her year group - has she friends there and could move? My DD did a lot of sport and dancing and made some friends through that - it also kept her busy and provided a bit of a social life but I know it doesn't help during the school day.

One teacher sent my DD to the office and asked the kids why they didn't play with my DD - they said they liked her but that they felt she just wanted to be alone at playtimes! and that it had not occurred to them to ask her to play (strangely when I asked a parent once why my DD did not get invites to houses she too said this) and I think this impression stuck. Teachers often said my DD had lots of friends in the class but it turned out they didn't know about the playground when specifically asked - perhaps there is a playtime assistant who could befriend your DD and get some group games going.

Good good luck - many hugs and good wishes. I hope things improve.

I'm so sorry. My son is on the SEN for his social communication skills.

I would try to think of it in terms of her needing help to develop friendship skills. I found this helpful with my son - I could break it down to little jobs I had to do and then build it up again. It helps me to be stronger psychologically - it makes it feel more similar to having a child who struggles to learn to read/write/ride a bike - you would study the problem and figure out what you had to do to help, step by step.

The standard book that seems universally liked around here is "The Unwritten Rules of Friendship". I would check that out. The authors start on the basis that there's no point in telling a child to march up to other children and say "can I play?" (which by the way they say is poor advice in the best of circumstances) unless they have a sense of how to do the playing if the kids say "yes".

It's very interesting that she is the first to comfort an upset child. Other than the fact that she is a nice person, why do you think that is? Could it be that this is a relatively "safe" way to approach people? (when they are upset and vulnerable, she is on more of an equal footing I guess?).

Sometimes children who struggle with friendship skills blossom when there are very clear rules - and the rules about what to do if someone is crying/upset are very clear. Whereas the rules about what to do when they are all talking about the latest craze which doesn't interest you are, sadly, not so clear....

As a child, I had few friends, generally tagging along as the third in a group of three. But when a situation matched the social rules that the teachers told us, I could function better. So when a child was false accused, I spoke up. When a child was humiliated, I went over to them. But when they became less vulnerable again, I somehow couldn't keep pace with them. I wasn't disliked, just not really considered anyone's friend.

Anway, I don't always succeed with my own advice when it comes to DS2! Today, a lovely but tactless friend sat me down and gave me a detailed explanation as to why my son has been struck off an invitation list by her little boy. You sit down for coffee, not realising it's going to be like a knife in your tummy.........

Hi Lingle - what a great post. I must get the friendship book. Interesting your comments about children knowing what to do when someone is vulnerable but not in 'normal' circumstances. I hate to think of my DD having to make an effort, but I suppose we all do subconsciously. Perhaps I have failed to advise her properly.

Haggis - I was hoping when she moves to secondary school next year she would develop some stronger friendships, but now you have me worried.

My DD is at a private girls prep. It is like a nest of vipers where being popular is the most important things to the girls. The staff do jackshit to help.

Sorry OP, I am hijacking your thread here.

I too frequently shed tears when my DD is left out, excluded, not chosen for something. Hopefully she does not seem to care as much.

My sisters youngest struggled in the same way and by year three she managed to find a cloe friend. She found the whole playground thing hard....the "rules" which girls play by are complex and some girls either dont ge it or are strong enough to not play by them...my sisters DD was like this. She didn't "get" why you had to play by thes rules...you know the sort of thing I'm talking about....there's always one leader...the on the others cow-tow to...well my niece wouldn't. So the other shunned her and she wasn't happy because she had no friends but in a way she didn't WANT to play with these girls either.

She's fine now....but it did take LOTS of individual playdates and my sister pushed a bt to get to know the other Mums...

I second brownies...and can't reccomend it enough actually. It will help your DD to see that she can form friendships and the strcture will help her do this.

Please don't be sad...how easy for me t say this....it's NOT uncommon though and at 7 she is young enough to learn still.

Yes Skinit - I like to think it is because my DD is not a yes girl that she is not particularly popular.

Exit - I didn't mean to worry you. My DD actaully did make very good friends at secondary with some twins and another girl who moved to France. The twins moved quite far away after a few years (but she still sees them every half term and holiday and they FB), things difficult for a while but she got a really good big group of friends for year9, 10 and 11 when forms shifted a bit for GCSE and streamed for core. She knew she wasn't top dog and it was in a "middle group" of popularity but she was very happy. Recent probs are due to a move to 6th form college and because she doesn't drink, have random sex and is not failing her course etc. I have 2 other daughters who have made very strong, good friends, especially at secondary and a son who is fine after his year3 blip - which I tackled better.

I think girls can be very cruel - over the years I have been gobsmacked by some of the things said to my DD and also to me by DD's tormentors/friends.

Lingle will amazon your book - I think in the past I gave bad advice

ktbabe - year3 is still young - my DS is now a lot happier and has friends from being sad and despondent. Things started to improve after Easter year 3 after tackling the teacher for the third time that year and I think it just took my son longer than some to develop his skills (eg he would get upset if kids ran off to play football, which he dislikes and would sit down all lonely and upset - he learnt to go off to the play equipment instead or just play along for a bit and suggest a game of "IT" after a bit). Good luck

I ordered Queen Bees and Wannabees after a thread about girls falling out a few days go. Not yet arrived but will probably be ordering the Rules of Friendship one as well.

Ohh - I hear you OP. My son getting to that situation although only in reception. But at reception I've noticed there are ALOT of sahm (I'm not) and they make friends with each other and hence their kids. I feel desperatey sorry for my ds. He does feel left out. He's sociable but his teacher is very happy that if he interrupts a twosome (they are all in two's at his school) and is told to go away - he just does. I feel so bad. And at the same time I'm in a position to really get involved with the other parents as I'm simply not there most of the time (and my refuses to get engaged with anyone).

It's like ds is invisble.

Gabids post resonates with me. I wonder if in early years they have one friend or no friend.

DS, has lots of friends outside school and that's what makes me think it's the school set up that hinders him.

OP - what are you next moves? Your dd sounds absolutely lovely.

giveitago I am a SAHM and so I have been around to do after school playdates etc but it does get a bit old when DD is NEVER invited to play by the Mums who work.

I know they're busy and weekends are family time...but they're only to pleased to let their kids come to play here...youd think they might prioritise ONE saturday morning or afternoon for their child to invite mine back.

That's all it takes...I''m not friends with other SAHMs particularly....for me it's about the kids ad that's all. WHich is why I still invite kids that DD likes...even if their parents' dont bother returning the favour.

www.amazon.com/Unwritten-Rules-Friendship-Strategies-Friends/dp/0316917303#reader_0316917303

it has quite a big "look inside" section

Oh skinit I see exactly - I was a sahm last year when ds was at nursery and although he had a huge social life - it was all at my place. OMG - I'm just organising a party for his next birthday and I don't actually know where these 'good friends' live to give the invite!

I know exactly what you're saying. I'm all smiles at school but one thing I've noticed is this (ds school big multicultural place) is that you are prioritised - and in fact I'm hardly there and ds is fairly quiet therefore we're invisible but just today I saw this one mum approach another mum and it was sooooo obvious that her motive was something I'd never ever consider (and I won't say it here) but I thought it bloody hilarious.

But it's so hard. I do agree.

Why don't you just give the invites to the teacher giveitago?

I don't quite get your point about the multicultural thing and the Mum approaching another...

It sounds really sad has she got no friends outside of school? Or how about children of your friends?
I struggled at school as a child but used to find at least one child that I would be really good inseperable from and this used to mean that the bullies for the most part would leave me alone.