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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Dinner money arrears

140 replies

Snowsquonk · 31/03/2011 13:08

Hello dear Mumsnetters

I am chair of governors of a primary school where we have a problem with people not paying for school dinners - a culture has been created in which most parents pay, those who can't afford are encouraged to apply for free school meals, but a small number of parents just take the mickey.

The trouble is, we say a child cannot have any more school dinners until arrears are paid off or an agreement for paying off the arrears is reached - but some parents then still send the child in without a packed lunch.

SO - what happens at your school - we are considering a policy where if a parent has not paid for a meal in advance, the child does not get one but this is primary and I don't think it's good for children to have nothing - how would you feel if your child was given a basic meal - eg, bread and butter and a piece of fruit instead of the full hot meal option - if you'd not booked and paid for the meal in advance.

What happens at your school?

Cheers!

OP posts:

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mrz · 05/04/2011 20:23

It could also be a sign of a family with serious problems who don't know which way to turn and who need help and support which can be provided by SS in either case pursuing it in the small claims court as debt could be putting a child at risk.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 06/04/2011 18:38

Exactly mrz.

pp - I too currently work in this area and non-payment of dinner money can be an indication of wider issues. Contacting social services is not to chase the debt but to help the family find the ways and means to properly support their children. It's not just about the money.

goingmadinthecountry · 06/04/2011 22:29

If it happens to me, it's because dd has decided to have more school dinnersw than I thought and I obviously pay up as soon as I know. Would hate though for less able to pay parents to be humiliated (or their children in fact to feel bad). Couldn't bear to see children humiliated in this way.

princessparty · 06/04/2011 23:22

Ok will in my experience non-payment of dinner money was a case of comfortably off parents not wanting to part with their brass rather than an issue of neglect.But I have never lived or worked in a deprived area so your experiences may well be different

mrz · 07/04/2011 06:24

So comfortably off parents not wanting to pay to feed their child isn't neglect whereas a parent who can't afford to pay is being neglectful princessparty?

I think you may have got that slightly confused ...

gorionine · 07/04/2011 06:36

"Our school secretary would ring parents and tell them that their child had forgotten their lunch so please bring it up to the school."

How does that work? Is the list checked every morning befre lesson start and then the secretary tours the school to ask the children whose parents have nt paid whether or not they have a lunch box? If not do they just call at luchtime to say "BTW, it appears your Dc has not got a lunch box can you bring him/her some lunch? What happens if the parents cannot be reached or if they cannot possibly bring the lunch on time? Do those children have to go hungry for the day?

yousankmybattleship · 07/04/2011 07:00

Good grief. I am genuinely shocked that parents aren't paying. I am almost as shocked by the idea of singling out the children for a workhouse meal though. Will you make them wear hessian sacks too? I think you should do everything you can to encourage the parents to pay up, but ultimately the school should cover the loss if necessary to make sure all children are getting a proper meal at lunchtime. I can't imagine it would be thousands and most schools have a small additional income raised by parents/friends of the school that could be dipped in to if necessary.

gorionine · 07/04/2011 07:33

PrincessParty I desagree with "Not paying bills is not child abuse". Surely it is if as you say in your next post it is not out of not having money but out of greed. Surely if the "bill" one refuses to pay is the one that ensures you child will be fed (and again, I am really not tlking about people in hardship at all but the ones "who would rather not part whith their brass" ?) it does amounts to neglet? Not providing for something you should provide and is well within your means is neglect IMHO.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 07:41

The school should have contact details. Phone the parent and say DC needs a packed lunch-please get it here by 12.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 07:48

If they can't bring the packed lunch say that you will supply a school lunch but you want the money as they collect (or from whoever collects their DC)

Feenie · 07/04/2011 07:53

Often the parent doesn't collect the child, and they go home alone in Y5/6.

gorionine · 07/04/2011 08:04

Exoticfruit, I do understand the principle, what I do not understand is the logistics of it. To be able to call the parents you have to first know who the children are which I assume is easy enough as on records but then, to know that these children have not got a lunch box, you have to go and ask them, early enough in the day to be able to tell the parents before actual lunch time. IME early in the morning the secratary is extreemly busy letting in late people or taking calls from parents calling to say their dcs are sick... After that presumably the children are in lessons and I cannot imagine it being interrupted by the secreatary. In fact I can just about imagine the conversation

SECRETAY: X, have you got a packed lunch today
CHILD : No, miss I am on school dinners

SECRETARY: (either) Not today you are not because your parents have not paid!
(or) Well today you should have a lunch box,I am calling your mum to ask for one.
CHILD: My mum is not at home in the morning, she cannot bring me a lunch box

SECRATARY: Well stale bread and water for you then boy!

For me anything that could put the child in a position where he/she will feel deeply unconfortable through no fault of their own or will make them have a bad meal through no fault of their own is an absolute NO!

colditz · 07/04/2011 08:11

If a parent cannot be reached at 10 to bring a lunchbox for 12, then a parent could not be reached if the child was ill and needed to go home. The answer is to make sure you can be reached. It's not acceptable to be out of contact with whoever is caring for your child.

And, to be honest, we all know the child would get fed if the parents were so shit they really will not bother to provide any lunch, the point is to mither the parents witless while they are failing to provide!

gorionine · 07/04/2011 08:16

Totally agreed Colditz, mypoint is that a process that includes having to involve the child should not be in place but indeed by all means, coming down hard on parents of course.

"It's not acceptable to be out of contact with whoever is caring for your child." it is sometimes happening though, not necessarely because you choose to not be reachable but because circumstance make that you are unreachable. something as stupid as being doing your weekly shopping for example as in a lot of shops you cannot get phone connection exept to caoll the emergencies. you can also be reachable but far to distant to the school to ba able to do anything.

gorionine · 07/04/2011 08:19

sorry for typos, ironically I am multitakling the lunchbox filling and MNeting

davidtennantsmistress · 07/04/2011 08:31

I agree it's not acceptable for a child to have bread/water/fruit, at the very least it should be a cheese sandwich and fruit if not a hot meal (comprimise on the costing to the school here)

Our school will ring up if there's no money in the kitty as it were for dinners or no packed lunch.

Ours also has a point of saying ALL dinner money to be marked & paid on a monday morning, either in cash to the teacher, or online (ours has a system) so you don't have to discuss it, i'd be mortified about arrears of that much - don't even like asking for a 'sub' for a week so other things get juggled about.

Also I think they send letters/the office tells the child, as DS went through a phase of coming home saying i needed to take money to the office - did go in, but was £6 in credit so wasn't sure what it was all about thou.

other cheap meal - some pasta & cheese?

heavenstobetsy · 07/04/2011 08:32

I would say it probably doesn't keep on happening in the majority of cases first leg - and if it does then there are broader issues of ability to pay or neglect to look at which i assume the school would address.

What the approach does do is get the can't-be-bothereds paying. We have the same issue at our nursery - same persistent offenders don't pay fees because they know we won't take court action or evict the child, so why bother coughing up? Its infuriating! ....... And before anyone says anything, yes i absolutely know there are no other factors at play for the parents concerned

ragged · 07/04/2011 16:46

"It's not acceptable to be out of contact with whoever is caring for your child."

Don't some people have jobs where that has to be the case? They have to turn their phones off and can't take messages unless it's an emergency (does a missing lunch count as an emergency?). Or what about people who are working several hours away -- again, some jobs require this occasionally or even often. That's leaving aside the problem of poor phone reception in rural areas. I don't think you can make blanket rules about that aspect of OP's problem.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 19:09

We have to have contact numbers and another emergency person. It is ridiculous to say that you can't be contacted-what if your DC is hurt and rushed to A&E (happened with my DS), how would your DC feel if you couldn't be bothered and switched your phone off or didn't have someone to get you a message in a poor reception area.
It must only be certain families and someone could ask the DC first thing if they had lunch and then get on the phone.

ragged · 07/04/2011 19:41

It makes me feel ill that it's become compulsory for a "good" parent to have a mobile phone in reception at all times :(.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 19:48

You have to have an emergency contact rather than just you.
You don't have to be in contact, but how dreadful for your DC injured in A&E and no one can contact you-they never have accidents at convenient times in my experience. Or are you just assuming that your DC will never have an emergency?

mrz · 07/04/2011 19:49

and I wouldn't have been able to provide a contact number for another emergency person when my children were younger.

mrz · 07/04/2011 19:50

I'm a teacher and I can't be contacted except in emergencies via the office.
I certainly don't have my mobile phone in the classroom.

mrz · 07/04/2011 19:50

why has the message done that!

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 19:56

However-in a real emergency you were contactable mrz and you could have got to A&E, if it was really necessary.

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