Dinner money arrears

[Snowsquonk]

Hello dear Mumsnetters

I am chair of governors of a primary school where we have a problem with people not paying for school dinners - a culture has been created in which most parents pay, those who can't afford are encouraged to apply for free school meals, but a small number of parents just take the mickey.

The trouble is, we say a child cannot have any more school dinners until arrears are paid off or an agreement for paying off the arrears is reached - but some parents then still send the child in without a packed lunch.

SO - what happens at your school - we are considering a policy where if a parent has not paid for a meal in advance, the child does not get one but this is primary and I don't think it's good for children to have nothing - how would you feel if your child was given a basic meal - eg, bread and butter and a piece of fruit instead of the full hot meal option - if you'd not booked and paid for the meal in advance.

What happens at your school?

Cheers!

Why do schools not ask for dinner money in advance?
I don't have school age children yet, but when I was at school we had to pay up front for the coming week.
If we had not paid by Tuesday, then we didn't get lunch. End of.

does your school not have a flo? can't he/she set aside a day to visit/ telephone these people and check if they are entitled to benefits, talk thro the problem etc?

I've never been involved in a schools governing body but for genuine cases of hardship couldn't there be a fund set up and run by the PTA or similar to cover the children whose parents are suffering genuine financial problems in the short term? I know this system is available for most other institutions, I used to teach secondary and often used to give a few quid to some members of my tutor group on a regular basis to prevent the problems identified in this thread.
Maybe this is something that needs to be dealt with at a national level?

when i was at school no meal ticket no meal - the class teacher took the school meals register along with the daily register every monday morning and these details were passed on to the kitchen/serving staff - the teacher kept a roll of tickets and gave each child who had paid a ticket to take into the dining room as they were leaving the classroom and you had to hand this to
the (rotweiler) dinner lady FSM children were also given a ticket so no one knew who they were - if you did not pay on a monday there was someone there to greet (harrass) the parent on collection - or you got a note to take home saying you needed money as you had not had any food.

seems a bit harsh today but it worked then

I don't think its ever been a problem at DCs primary. The infants used to pay a term or half a term in advance, the juniors bought a 4 week lunch card. But they would feed the kids if the card ran out, you would get a phone call of email reminder if it went on too long.
At seniors they charge up a card, and if you have no charge you get no food.

If there are people who don't pay, then maybe you should send them a reminder with information on how to claim FSM.
If they continue being feckless, then maybe they need to be kept an eye on anyhow for child protection issues.

Surely not providing food or the means to get food for your child is neglect and could well be an indicator of further neglect at home, is probably something to be documented in child protection files. If parents knew this they might be more responsible.

I would imagine, OP, that you could ask the LEA to legally pursue them for the arrears -- small claims court if necessary. The first step is to send them warning letters. Do a preliminary very nice letter that says that you would hate to have to resort to stronger measures but may be left with no choice, payment is due now, but give them the option of payment in instalments. POST this to them (do not rely on bookbags), perhaps by recorded delivery. If no payment after two weeks send them a scarey letter, being very specific about small claims procedure being the next step.

135 quid is taking the Piss.

at our school if the parents don't pay for the dinner and provide no alternative meal arrangement the child gets a bowl of cereal

I am chair of govs at an Infants school. We always ensure that the children get a proper lunch. We have a small group of parents who are in arrears by amounts over £100. We have worked out a repayment plan with most but those who have not worked with us to repay the arrears we have taken to the small claims court.

Wallywithabrolly if they are at work there is no excuse at all for not paying up!

Snowsquonk arrears are passed onto the LA financial services who chase up the money

It would be up to the school to pursue arrears - the LA are not interested, it's not their money!

We send warning letters, and I am quite keen to go down the small claims court route but it's whether this is a good use of staff time etc - will look into it

I would suggest that a child left hungry with no lunch provision, would become a matter for the child protection governor.

1 As you are in loco parentis you can't be the ones to let the child go hungry or be inadequately fed.Therefore the only solution would be to phone the parents to say if they didn't bring alunch/dinner money then they are to come and collect their child.If they don't then the policy for uncollected children must be followed.

2 Serious arrears should be being dealth with by the council's finance department I would have said.They will have proper collections procedures and I would worrry that your school might be falling foul of laws about harassment of creditors if you carry on as you are.As a first step contact your finance dept at the LEA.

As a teacher I would feel very unhappy if someone suggested a child in my care was not given lunch and I think legally you would be on shaky ground as you have a duty of care.

At our school persistent offenders get a call asking them to collect child at lunch time or bring in a packed lunch. Don't know what they would do if the parent did neither.

Feel very sad for any child whose parent can't be arsed to sort out their lunch - either making it or paying for it.

You can claim for some of the expenses using small claims procedure.
I am amazed that LEA not interested -- I would get them to put that in writing if I were you, before assuming you can act without their close guidance.

I think small claims court. I recon most wouldn't want to go to court so just a letter threatening to take them to court to get the money would be enough for most to pay up.

At my previous school lots of help was given with FSM applications but if a child who wasn't eligible for FSM had parents who wouldn't pay they were asked to send in a packed lunch. Teachers and TAs kept an eye on whether or not lunches were sent in (and, in certain cases, if they contained suitable food i.e. something other than chocolate and crisps). If a lunch wasn't provided by home the parents were telephoned before 9.30am and asked to bring one in. If they didn't they were called again and reminded that regularly failing to provide a child with adequate food/drink was neglect and that a Child Protection referral would have to be made... more often than not the parents managed to provide lunch.

Never did a child go without lunch though - if no food was provided by home the child was given a school dinner.

Terrible idea. Singles out children and punishes children. Hassle the parents, call them, send them letters and collar them in the playground. Ask them to meet head teacher to discuss the situation. Pressure the parents, not the children!

I can not believe that the school would refuse a child a lunch. What if that is their main meal of the day? It will embarass the poor child, make them stand out and be open to teasing as well as leaving them hungry and uncomfortable.

By all means contact SS and says its neglect not to provide means to feed the child, take the parents to court for the money whatever needs to be done to recoup the schools money but punish the parents not the child.

Have to add that the decision re providing non-payers with milk and a biscuit was introduced when the LEA contracted out the school meals service to a private contractor. So the LEA and the school are no longer responsible for collecting the money. If your LEA is thinking about contracting out this service this is the sort of thing that can happen when a private firm takes over. Prices of meals are now more expensive but the quality has improved.

I would phone the parents on a daily basis. If they still didn't pay I would tell them that they would be named and shamed in the monthly school newsletter. As a parent who pays for school dinners it would annoy me that some parents weren't bothering to pay. Why should I pay if x's parent isn't bothering? (Obviously if they were entitled to free school dinners then that is okay).

You could also write in your policy that if parents don't pay for school dinners on time then they will need to pay for lunches a week in advance.

I'd issue letters stating that arrears must be paid by x date or county court proceedings will be issued. Its takes just a few minutes to issue proceedings via the online system.

Going forward, i'd send a letter to all parents stating if a child is not provided with a packed lunch or a school meal paid for then they will be called to either bring a lunch or to take the child home for lunch. Non complicance would be seen as child neglect and the relevant parties informed.

It looks like you have been reasonable but need to get tough now as people are abusing it. Its not fair on the parents that do pay.

Wally, I wouldnt be happy if PTA funds were used to pay for lunches - the PTA is supposed to be there to provide the extras for all children not pay for things that parents should provide like food.

I'll bet it's the comfortably off parents who don't pay.

You can't let a child go hungry to punish the parent. You just can't. It is not the child's fault, yet they are the ones that suffer.

What about switching to packed lunches only?

Or writing a letter saying that due to the number of parents who are refusing to pay for the school meals and the £X currently outstanding (total amount), the school will stop providing a hot meal and all children will have to bring in a packed lunch. No food will be kept on site, so any child who does not come in with a packed lunch will have no food, and a parent will have to come and collect them or bring in food, or the child will have no lunch.

Then add that if the arrears are cleared by X date, then this may not have to happen, providing arrears do not build up again.

Even if you are bluffing, they won't know that and the other parents in the school yard will be hopping mad with them. (they won't know who it is but it won't be comfortable for the culprits!)

oh, and you could add that failing to send a packed lunch in for their child would be considered a neglect issue and you may have no choice but to consider reporting it.

Basically, really lay it on thick! Hopefully, they might come in with their chequebooks if you manage to convince them that you mean business.