dd1 yr 1 can't add 15+7, dh wants to move her to private school. Opinions?

[mumonahottinroof]

DD1 is a sensitive soul and homework with her is never fun. Yesterday I had a lie in and came down to discover her in tears and dh in a fury because he'd spent an hour trying to explain to her how to add 15 + 7 for her homework. She just didn't get it and when she doesn't grap something she gets in a terrible tizz, screams and refuses to listen. Dh fulminating about how we should move her to a private school where she'd be "taught properly"

Now please don't flame, dh was just in a bad mood - he and I agree that the teaching at her school is generally excellent. We are going to move dd to a private school at some point as our local secondary is diabolical but for now I'm happy with where she is. What I want to know is - is a) is it unusual for a 6yo to find this kind of addition hard b) How can I help her "get" it?

By the way, in the end she didn't do homework and I wrote a note on it saying she didn't understand and I didn't think it would help if I just did it for her. Am hoping her teacher (who has just started, old adored one has gone on ml) will read and take note.

dd (now in Y2 and in top set for numeracy) used to baffle me by being incapable of very simple additions during homework attempts some nights, then completing the whole lot without help other nights. Equally baffling when she would seem clueless at home, but the teacher would tell me she was fine with a specific operation at school.

Now I'm beginning to see that its ALL true: sometimes she is tired, or cross, or feeling under pressure, or distracted, and it all goes 'away'. Other times she is on the ball, relaxed, and totally capable.

But 6 yos are very confusing (7 yos too, but a bit less)

ps I don't think 6yos would be any less confusing in private school. I wasn't.

It has always been a requirement, maybe most people now pass GCSE at school? You have to have it for any kind of degree.

Just asked my two (much older - 10 and 15) how they would do it. 15 said she would count on. 10 said he would do it by thinking 3 7s are 21 plus 1. (15 said that means he's a wierdo and they are currently having a wrestling match)

Not sure what this tells anyone - but I thought it was interesting!

DS (state primary in a notorious London borough) would have been able to do it by 'counting on' at 6.

In school she would probably still be using counters or cubes or a numberline if the calculation involves bridging ten.

I think that all the different methods have been covered but I wouldnt be shocked if a Year 1 child couldnt answer this. Some can, some cant and they will all use a different way to add them up.

One thing we teach is ensuring children are solid with number bonds, ie 1-9, 2+8 3+7 4+6 5+5 etc.
Then by adding a 10 in front of one of the numbers that they can recognise number bonds to 20.

If they are solid on this they start to recognise that if 5+5 is 10 then 7 is two more numbers so 5+7=12. There was a ten in the number as well so 10+12=20.

Work on patterns with counters - ie show two rows of 5 to make ten, then three rows to make 15, four rows to make 20 then 2 left over. Move the rows of 5s into 10s

Make counting visible, if children can physically see groups of numbers it usually helps.

Homework should NEVER EVER be stressful. It should be supporting something they already know from school. If they cant do it they should not be forced, it is so not worth the grief and hassle it causes. Teachers do not want parents to get distressed and fraught and I am sure they will all agree they need to know if a child is not able to complete something at home because they cant understand it.

DS could of done that sum in year one.

start with 15 then count 7 on your hands.

should take 30 seconds.

see the teacher.

but don't do the homework because the teacher will think she can do it.

I explained put 15 in your head and add on 7 on your fingers last night and she got it straight away

But next time I go into school - dh does quite a lot of school runs, will talk to teacher. Thanks again everyone.

I just asked DS (6.5) what it was. He answered straightaway. I am quite suprised at that. He is now explaining at length. Wish I hadn't asked. It is very frustrating when they don't 'get it'. We do tend to forget how confusing some tings are when you are little.

15+7=
it is all about number bonds to 10 and jumping along the number line in your mind
child needs to partition 7 into 5 and 2
child needs to identify 15 as 10 and 5

so its 15+ 5=20+2=22

I would expect most YR1 pupils to do this now, but there are so many ways of doing this (actual blocks, number lines, fingers counting on, , number bonds, other chunking, columns, 'weirdo' factorialisation (as above) that I suspect the problem may be DH trying to do it differently to how she wished it done.
Glad she's got it, but perhaps DH needs to calm down, talk to teacher, or even just ask her what she's been told as a way of doing it (or compare with other stuff-presumably she wasn't sent home with one sum)?
As to moving school, that's some very bad maths in that cost-benefit calculation.

Beware your DH. Does he have a masterplan?
I had a former colleague like this, who would do shared tasks other people usually did so badly that we didn't want her to do anything again, so ended up doing nothing but her own work and so getting promotion whilst the rest of us did the grunt stuff. She was even open about it-described it as 'promotion through creative incompetence'.

wahwahwah - I asked my DD (6.4) the question out loud last night and she got it straight away, without counting/fingers. I was quite impressed! Especially as she does maths in French at school, but I asked the question in English and she answered in English!

sorry no time to read all the replies so sorry for duplication. Use bundles of straws. Get your dd to bundle 10 straws together and have separate straws for the 7 and the 5. So that she can see the 15 (ie 1 bundle of 10 and 5) and the 7 in "concrete". Then get her to count the 7 and the 5 so that she herself gets to 12 then "partition" the 12 into 1 bundle of 10 and 2 separate straws. She will then have 2 bundles of 10 and 2 so will get to 22.

Long winded but the children need to see concrete at this stage. I am not a teacher but my son is in Yr1 as well and the school are showing us parents how they teach maths at th emoment. (A fantastic 4 week course).

adelaofblois - As to moving school, that's some very bad maths in that cost-benefit calculation.

If you google number line you'll find various free examples you can print out. And suggest to the school that they do a workshop for parents to teach them the methods their children are using to learn.

Adeal - there is no masterplan as such but dh certainly is a grump which means I end up doing more than my share of these types of activities. Dd2, however, is a much more placid type so when she starts school next year I'm going to make her homework dh's responsibility - still the long straw but I am hell bent on dividing the load. As for the cost benefit - he just wants dd to go to a private school and will use any excuse.

Sorry, I mean Adela

I've basically had to take over all the maths homework management from DH as he used to shout and swear at DS when he had a brain freeze and was frankly just being a fuckwit to him. Bottom line is if the child isn't particularly quick at a subject no amount of pressurising them and making them feel stupid is going to turn them into Einstein. We now use whizz.com which DS adores - he will happily do at least 30 mins on it a night and, at £20 a month it's marginally cheaper than a prep school :-)

Mathletics? It gives me palpatations but kids seem to like it!

Will look at websites, my worry was that dd would just want to play more interesting games on computer. Can you do trials before parting with cash?

A lot of websites are free, mathisfun for instance.

I am pretty sure all of my DC could have done that sum in Yr1; but I'm sure a lot in their year couldn't. They're all good at different things. 6.75yo DS is currently having a paddy because he can't draw an Easter egg as well as he would like.

Yes you can do a trial of whizz before paying anything plus it's a month to month commitment so you aren't signing up to a 12 month contract.

We certainly haven't found it a problem to encourage DS to use it and to stay with it even when we're not watching him.....in fact he's waiting to use the laptop for it now. Every child is different of course but I honestly feel it's transformed the way that DS views maths in general.