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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

dd1 yr 1 can't add 15+7, dh wants to move her to private school. Opinions?

108 replies

mumonahottinroof · 28/03/2011 09:51

DD1 is a sensitive soul and homework with her is never fun. Yesterday I had a lie in and came down to discover her in tears and dh in a fury because he'd spent an hour trying to explain to her how to add 15 + 7 for her homework. She just didn't get it and when she doesn't grap something she gets in a terrible tizz, screams and refuses to listen. Dh fulminating about how we should move her to a private school where she'd be "taught properly"

Now please don't flame, dh was just in a bad mood - he and I agree that the teaching at her school is generally excellent. We are going to move dd to a private school at some point as our local secondary is diabolical but for now I'm happy with where she is. What I want to know is - is a) is it unusual for a 6yo to find this kind of addition hard b) How can I help her "get" it?

By the way, in the end she didn't do homework and I wrote a note on it saying she didn't understand and I didn't think it would help if I just did it for her. Am hoping her teacher (who has just started, old adored one has gone on ml) will read and take note.

OP posts:

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figcake · 28/03/2011 10:36

If you can't teach, don't

megapixels · 28/03/2011 10:36

I didn't literally mean draw the WHOLE number line out by the way, that would be quite hard .

Blu · 28/03/2011 10:38

Private school will not solve your DH's temper problem.

He wasn't 'sorely provoked'. She is 6. If she doesn't 'get' it in the way the school have been teahing her within about 10 moins she nees more time or ore experinece with the school's method. Not anyone hectoring her for an hour.

IMO (as someone who was v bad at maths as a child - but manage a complicated £1k turnover without difficulty now) teaching maths to small children is a real skill. Find out what methods the school is using, make sure the method is consistent and don't confuse with new methods at hme, unles play / puzzle based.

Blu · 28/03/2011 10:39

And inability to do that sum at 6 isn't a great problem, IMO.

Ryuk · 28/03/2011 10:44

I'm also wondering why he carried on for an hour if he was getting upset? He's the adult - if he's not coping with the situation he should switch to doing something else, not carry on frustrating himself until he's upsetting a six year old!

wheresthepimms · 28/03/2011 10:49

Ok tell your DH to think outside the box, stop getting cross with your DD and come up with another solution. All my DCs learnt how to add and subtract before they went to school by using little green and red frogs we had (plastic of course). So when at school and they got a hard question for their homework they would go get their frogs count them out and add them.

DS2 is very able in maths and he uses the 15 in my head 7 in my hand. Makes 7 fingers in his hand starts at 15 in his head and counts on using his fingers. He learnt this in the states where maths is way ahead of us from a young age. I must admit his mathematical ability is scary though, he did his maths homework yesterday in 5 mins, then when I read the school website it said that he was only supposed to do the first sheet as it was for next week and the week after as well oopps

TigerFeet · 28/03/2011 10:50

DD1 is in Y2 and has only just grasped that sort of sum. She's bang on average for her age.

I'd suggest leaving it after a few minutes if she can't do it, and speaking to the teacher about it.

Why on earth did he push it for so long?

wheresthepimms · 28/03/2011 10:50

the other thing would be to buy the usbourne math dictionary it is very good at explaining to you how to explain to them.

squidgy12 · 28/03/2011 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

vintageteacups · 28/03/2011 10:53

In yr 1, they will be using number lines and using the phrase 'adding on' or more than (7 more than 15) etc so perhaps your dh used the method he was taught at school?

Column addition isn't generally taught until yr 3/4 depending on ability.

Does she know her number bonds to 10? That's very important and helps her work through both addition and subtraction.

So rather than telling her to do 15 + 7, use the number line and if she gets it, you can explain that an easier way to do it is to think of

15 + 5 +2

In schools today, it's all about breaking things down into smaller bits and then putting all the bits together; very dissimilar to when we were at school in the 80's/90's

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 28/03/2011 10:55

I'm going to assume here that the OP's DH doesn't have a general "temper problem" but is like I was when DS1 was just starting school.

I felt, as a parent I HAD to be assisting with their homework, explaining things and if they'd got homework to do making sure they did it. It was a sharp shock t the system to discover that DS1 couldn't actually do all the things he'd been set as homework, and I thought my role as parent was to support the schools teahing by helping him re-inforce at school. I had no temper issues, I just got incredibly frustrated because I felt I was failing somehow, and then DS1 used to get upset and frustrated too. It was a cycle of hell and it was only when I spoke to his teacher about his reluctance/issues at home with his reading and looked me straight in the face and said "just let him read it through with you then and don't worry about the rest" that things improved - dramatically.

It was a harsh lessn for me to learn, and I felt like shit far more times than I had to. I can do/explain lots of things with my children, but with their school work I have learned to take a step back, I still make sure they do their homework, and if they ask for help I will try to - but now I simly show them how I would do it, usually on paper, and then leave it at that. They looked at the paper and think about how I explain it and they either get it or they don't.

vintageteacups · 28/03/2011 10:55

Oh and ask the school/yr 1 co-ordinator if the school has a homework guide - explaining to parents themethods they use for teaching maths and phonics.

Some schools actually invite parents in and talk to them /show them how lessons have changed since they were at school - perhaps you could ask if they could explain to you/yr group parents as I'm sure it won't be just you who isn't sure how they teach it.

seeker · 28/03/2011 10:58

He was not "sorely provoked"!

It is insane to spend an hour trying to teach a 6 year old something they can't get.

Go to a pound shop and buy a big box of poker chips. Best think I ever did for my dd's maths. Sums like this suddenly become easy if you can actually see 15 'somethings' and move another 7 'somethings" to join them

Anaxagora · 28/03/2011 11:02

Check to see whether she can add 5 and 7. Reliably. If she can't, check that she knows her number bonds to 10, then move onto number bonds to 20. Once she's cracked that, adding extra tens is a fairly easy step up.

I don't think your dd is behind, btw, my Y2 child probably could do that sum (though not nec with 100% reliability), but couldn't have done it last year.

3littlefrogs · 28/03/2011 11:02

I always used marbles/conkers/coins in bowls when mine were little. It sounds as if your dd is a visual learner and would benefit from seeing/handling/transferring objects at this stage.

My children did Kumon for a couple of years - very expensive, but it works (only if both parents are patient and totally committed though).

3littlefrogs · 28/03/2011 11:03

X posted with seeker.

wineclub · 28/03/2011 11:07

My ds would have struggled with that at Y1. He is in Y2 and can now do things such as "I am 16 and my brother is half my age. My sister is a quarter of his age. What are our combined ages?" in his head without much effort. He didn't like number lines and found it easier to do the counting out of objects.

In terms of helping her to get it I would recommend using some counters that she can use to help visualise to numbers. I like cubes that you can join together so you can keep the 10s in groups. It helps to visualise 10 as 10x1 and when you use something of a regular size then number bonds become more apparent and 15+7 can be seen as 2 tens plus 2 units.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 28/03/2011 11:10

seeker - yes I agree it's insane to spend an hour doing it - but I can only say that now after I've been able to look back and see what I was trying to do with DS1 was insane. I think my line of thinking went something along the lines of

"it's my job as parent to support my child in their learning at home, my child has obviously not understood what they were taught in school, therefore it is my job to help them learn it"............stupid I know, but I honestly felt I'd be failing as a parent if I didn't help him

Love2Ski · 28/03/2011 11:40

I will check my dd later with that sum. Sure she would use fingers to add the 7 but may need help to remember to do that. She is in year 1 and they only do reading at home - no homework; not even spellings. Start homework in year 2.

Runoutofideas · 28/03/2011 12:05

My dd (also yr1) doesn't get maths homework as such. The other day though, she was playing a maths computer game and asked me for a 100 square to help her do it. I had no idea what she meant, but it is just a square with the numbers 1-100 printed on it, in order obviously. Once we had created a 100 square she could do the game easily. Maybe that would help your dd?

mummytime · 28/03/2011 12:10

If possible don't let your DH help her with homework. At 6 if she can't do it fairly quickly, then the best thing is to leave it, either to try later or to put a note to teacher.

Do not let kids of this age get upset over their homework.

BTW this is a Mum who discovered last week that I can't help my 12 year old, its much better to leave it to her big brother.

There are lots of way to solve 15+7, and she might find it easier using any one of them: a written out number line, a hundreds square, using objects to count, colouring in pictures etc.

Personally if this is the kind of homework she is getting at 6 it is of quite a high level (and I doubt private school would stretch more).

Blu · 28/03/2011 12:24

My whole confidence and ability (sic) in maths was ruined by stress and tension in getting homework done, frustrated parents, family misery. And I was at a private school at 6.

It was only in my second GCSE year when we had a genuinely empathetic teacher who understood kids who didn't 'get' maths or were made anxious by it that I felt I could do it.

CharlieBoo · 28/03/2011 12:40

I have a 6 yo in year 1 and tbh he struggles with maths. He would not have been able to work that out in his head, he would have needed a number square, or number line. That's how they work these things out at school. Mental arithmatic with come in later. TBH you would probably find your daughter struggling a lot more in private school as the other children will most likely be more ahead as they've been there from the beginning.

I appreciate your and dh's frustration, and your eagerness for her to 'get on'. I feel that too, but they are only 6 and there is so much time for all this. Letting her see your frustration just eats at her confidence, be patient and it will come with time.

BluddyMoFo · 28/03/2011 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Michaelahpurple · 28/03/2011 12:55

Maths for Mums and Dads by Rob Eastaway is great, on that note.

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