new maths methods are driving me mad..anyone else?

[wheelsonthebus]

dc are not at all bad at maths, but the new methods are slowing down their entire learning IM0. Goodness knows what will happen when we get to 'chunking' (dh went to a maths workshop at the school and even the teacher demonstrating it said to parents - 'er this is where it all goes wrong' - as she was doing it ). Whoever thought up these new methods is bonkers. For example, a simple sum like 58 + 29. By far and away, the easiest method is adding vertically like this.
58
29+
-
This is how the sum still appears in many traditional 7+ papers
But no, we are now told:
58 + 29 = difficult
58 + 30 - 1 or 58 + 2 + 27 = easier
It's rubbish!

The new theory being - changing a number to a round number or one which creates a round number when added to or subtracted from the other (e.g. 29 to 30 or 28) and then compensating makes the calculation much easier. For instance (33 + 99) is much easier when thought of as (33 + 100 -1).

I'm sorry - but it is NOT easier and millions of children will be worse off for it...

DS is 7 and in Y2 at private. He can work out OPs example in both ways. I agree that the column works best on paper but the other is great for mental maths.

DH and I went to a workshop at the school sun by the Y3 specialist maths teacher. She said that they will teach kids loads of different ways and that the child will eventually one they like best. Interestingly, we were asked to pick out 3 random children who were in Y4 and they all worked out the same maths question in different ways

thanks OliPolly - that's interesting to me

Thank you OliPolly.

Maybe I'm being thick, but isn't chunking a bit arbitrary /random whereas bus stop method relies on what you know regarding tables etc?

Most of the parents in the room said to the teacher 'Where were you when we were growing up?' only because at school, we would have been expected to use the one method which may not have been right for every child!

She taught us a few of the tricks and set us loose on the iPads (tutpup) with a timed test and lets just say the results were a

It was lightbulb moment for my DS when he realised on his own that division is linked to multiplication

The chunking thing is how I would naturally work it out in spite of being taught the

58 + 29

way. 30 on then take one away.

I don't think that's the same thing MrsH75, your example looks more like partitioning?
Chunking (i think) is when you pick a random number that your divisor divides into better than the one you re actually dividing ....or something like that?

I agree with Melrose completely.

The kids get taught a method at school but because the parents don't understand it they teach them 'their' method. That's what creates the confusion.

The first time I encountered chunking was whilst helping in a year 4 class. A pupil showed me what to do and it made sense. My DC understands it too and is good at completing calculations in this way.

We had a parents evening about maths at his school recently and they showed us what the kids were being taught and how. They told us that this was to ensure the pupils understand what they are doing. Eventually they will aim to get them doing 'old fashioned' methods but in the early stages they are trying to get kids to see 'what' they are doing and 'why'.

FWIW if anyone remembers ITA for literacy, I was taught that back in the 1970s and it's like a foreign language. But I was reading fluently by Y1 because I followed the programme from beginning to end. My parents didn't put a 'ordinary' book in front of me just because they didn't understand the wizzy letters of ITA. They trusted the teachers.

I use maverick's tic tac method for subtraction, but I have taught my dc the method they use in schools. I wouldn't deliberately undermine a school's teaching methods. I am however temporarily Home edding, and am wondering which method I should use to teach division?

Actually I think some of the new methods are fab. I am halfway through a maths-based degree, and I love them!

My exams so far have been calculator-free, and I found myself using the Grid Method for any long multiplication, in my daily life too, because despite being very good at maths my mental arithmetic isn't very quick.

I think the key is good communication between schools and parents, I love the workshop idea.

Please feel free to explain chunking very slowly to me then FS :o

BrigitBigKnickers (love the name), I have been teaching for years and I agree the chunking method for division is pants (no pun intended)

wheelsonthebus when you buy something for £19.99 and something for 30p do you not say £20 plus 30 -1 p?

Please don't think this isn't taught in private schools. My friend, whose child is in year 3, is driven demented by this in a well regarded private school. At least 75% of the parents have showed the kids the 'traditional' way to add/subtract and the school asked them to desist from any further home tuition as it was confusing them.

Look at this new maths

I find the current methods of teaching are excellent and I have learnt so much by learning the methods taught today. They are encouraged to do a lot more mental maths and to understand numbers.

I used to disagree with numbers written across the line and what was wrong with columns etc., but now I do understand the logic and it is much more beneficial as the kids go through school

Chunking is division Grid method is multiplication and partitioning for addition and subtraction

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11258175

I'm just starting to introduce Big Maths does anyone's school follow this?

Maverick - the tic tic method you described for subtraction looks like the one I learnt, called 'borrowing then paying back, and putting the payback on the doorstep.'
I tutor children and whatever method they learn at school I try and teach and provide practice, but often I have to check answers with my own trusted, completely automatic method, the one described.

I teach a child who is very, very poor at maths, and more than one method is completely unmanageable for her. I don't think she really understands, but she can do the sums. I have not found a way to make her understand but live in hope that doing the sums until skilled will help in the process.

One of the things they also learn now, which I never did, is BIMDAS.Anyone else familiar with this? It's very handy,so how did I ever manage without knowing this?

Here it is brackets, indices, etc. I guess many kids must figure it out for themselves then if they have sufficient nous with their number facts, but it's a handy thing to know.

...'Can we extend the rant to multiplication? DS has been taught by school that to know a times table you only have to be able to recite the totals eg the 3 times table said aloud is 3,6,9,12,15... not 1x3=3, 2x3=6....

'Reciting the totals' is learning a sequence, or number pattern. Tables are still taught when children are learning multiplication, just in the way they always have been!

We count 2,4,6,8 ... 5,10,15 ... in reception and Y1 but from Y2 we learn tables because it helps with speed of calculation.

My DS is good at mental maths and he does it by chunking. Column method is quick and fast but my DS's ability with numbers is great for his age and I think chunking has helped rather than hindered. You can do the column method correctly and quickly while getting very little feel for the actual numbers involved, all you know is how to add very small numbers together which is largely done by memory rather than real calculation.

And he has been learning times tables all year - he is yr 3 - and he does it the good old fashioned way: 5 times 8 equals 40, 12 times 6 equals 72.

In fact maths at his state primary is excellent. English not so good. I suppose you rarely get it all, on the whole the school is good.