Is your PTA truly a pTa?

[emkana]

Ie do the teachers get involved? And if they don't, do you feel they should do more, or do you think they're busy enough as it is?

Well, I stay and help clear up after school based events because someone has to lock up!

Sounds as though there are as many different 'types' of PTAs, and relationships between PTAs and schools, as there are posters! Interesting to hear, because I ony have experience of one.

Ours is relatively new, and makes a real difference to 'extras' for the children - its a small community school, with a fairly high proportion of free school meals, and getting chickens for the allotment or ingredients for the Chefs to run a cookery club matters as much to the Head (and most of the teachers) as it does to the parents.

I would never expect a teacher to stay and clear up after an event, but in reality some of them almost always do - usually the Head, and the school Caretaker at the very least. If they've been involved.

But I do think Emkana's point about 'thank yous' is hugely important. And vice versa, from parents/PTA to teachers. If no one feels appreciated by the other groups in a community, discontent is inevitable.

Elibean - your PTA sounds fabulous. Chickens for an allotment. Now there is a lovely idea.

I offered to sort out the overgrown veg patch at the DSs school so the children could plant some seeds etc. I would be happy to donate my time and tools and go and buy some seeds etc. I live next to the school and would have been happy to look after it in the holiday.

My offer was not taken up and the veg patch is just thick with nettles. Instead they just want me to bake cakes and attend school functions and pay and pay and pay for inumerable things I dont really want to buy.

I would far rather donate my time to do things that they just dont have staff time to do but that children would get something out of. I dont expect PTA to raise money to provide equipment and stuff that should come out of school fees anyway.

Ohhh! Beenbeta, wish you lived near my school.
I'm embarrased by the state of both our class garden and the vegetable patch.
I agree with you about the constant requests for money for things you and DCs don't even want.
We suggested a termly voluntary donation at one of my previous schools, then really limit the amount of events. The idea didn't get taken on board though (not sure of the reason).
On the other hand, I feel that because I can't donate time to my DCs PTAs I have to send money, cakes, OTT tombola prizes at every request, but it doesn't make me feel any the less guilty.

Haven't read the entire thread but ours is a 'Parents Association' for thia very reason! No mention of the teachers!

It's the ATTITUDE, Goblin. If teachers are dissing PTAs then we may as well not waste our time. They can bugger off and not have the extra 9k a year we raise.

Actually, as a supply, I did help at the fete at the school I was working in as well as providing cakes for every sale while I was there. Maybe because I know what a thankless task being on the PTA often is. I was thanked and given tea.

For the record teachers at our school do over and above. We always thank them. I really understand teachers not coming to events - why should they? No one pays them to. And I wouldn't expect them to make me tea if I was on site doing something. Maybe our school is just far more reasonable. BUT don't be so rude on here about those who give their time.

Ours is a 'Friends of xxxx school' and the staff are involved is planning and decisions on what we should raise funds for and what to spend money on. It is a small village school and the head teacher comes to most of the events and some teachers are involved with the summer fate, we never have teachers at the discos as they aren't classed as fund raisers, they are just fun for the children.
We do not expect any more involvement as the teachers have their own lives, about half have families of their own and we don't expect them to give up even more of their time then they already do just making sure our children have the best education possible to come to fund raising social events.
Our teachers work very hard for the school, they are there at 8am and allot of the time don't leave school until after 5 or 6pm, often later, what more do we want from our teachers????

Not all schools have caretakers and certainly not those who will lock up the school after 6pm. One of the key holders has to be at every event and stay until the end.

As a previous poster noted most teachers raise much more in grants or events than most PTAs do.

The 9k mentioned above was not for the teachers it was for the children.

In some (obv not all) the money often comes with strings, to buy stuff that parents want but schools may not. I remember one where the PTA bought tv and video for each class for wet playtime. the children actually went out whenever possible (but some mums didn't like that for their pfb children) or all went into the hall and played board games/ watched big tv etc. By giving a tv for each class for wet playtime they then expected staff to stay in each class with the children and never to go out when there was even a hint of rain. Plus they didn't provide any videos and so the teachers stumped up.

At my dd's last school there were about 5 teachers who had their own children at the school.

The only teacher you ever saw at the PTA meetings was the head or if she couldn't make it the deputy head. Neither of which had children at the school.

Again the only teachers I ever saw at any event was the head (and then not always). Some events there was noone apart from the janitor.

I knew quite a few of the teachers wifes, husbands from the school playground. Funnily enough they never attended either.

This did irk a bit as I just could not understand that mentality. It sent a terrible message out to everyone else who made the effort to help and or attend the events organised.

So am I the mug? I turn up every month, write newsletters, organise events? Also put quite a bit of my own money in that I never claim back? Seriously, would like opinions. Should I just stay home?

At times I think it would be easier if everyone donated a lump sum, especially those that spend hours and hours sorting out events. For the amount of money actually raised, I do question whether it was worth all the lost time from parents and teachers

Roadart. I always say send a bit of cash instead of cakes unless you are a keen baker (and we have many keen bakers) and explain that we sell them for 20 p each (if its just a sale for the children not part of an event)

One parent sends in cupcakes cakes from local shop which cost £1.25 each. She puts them into a tuperware(as if home baked) rather than the lovely little box they come in. We sell them for 20p or £1.20 in total she has paid £7.50. Why not just send a couple of pounds in.

Would schools be lesser places though if there were no discos and no fairs? Or wouldn't it matter?

the kids remember the fairs, discos, parties, trips, days out etc. You cant take away the memories of doing something different - that the PTA funded

As I said, it's good to raise funds to improve the quality of experience for your own children
How would you feel if I suggested that your school link with another in an impoverished area of this country and you sent the £9k or so to a different school to help those far less fortunate than your own children?
I would be very comfortable with that as a twinning idea.

Ooo Goblin I like the twinning idea. Our PTA raised (looking at book now):

valentine's disco-£24
summer fete-£321
Xmas bazaar-£247
year 6 leavers disco - minus £42
numerous meetings/ disagreements on how to run things -£0

tbh though, every lent our school raises a fantastic amount for charity over lent each year and all our non-uniforms days, extra mini-sales go to charity. For example we had a cake sale for the Haiti earthquake. We have links with another school we directly support. So I think considering their economic circumstances our parents are generous and I woudn't say a word against them, we have fantastic families, just not PTA types.

Looks very like the stats from my last school, whereas the one I teach in now raises around £3,000 at the Christmas fair and Over £4,500 at the summer fair. Discos run at around £200 profit a time.

RoadArt - "At times I think it would be easier if everyone donated a lump sum, especially those that spend hours and hours sorting out events. For the amount of money actually raised, I do question whether it was worth all the lost time from parents and teachers".

That is exactly the suggestion we made at DSs school. It seemd logical to put a voluntray £25 on the school fees per term. The reaction we got was as if we had commited some kind of hertical sin.

our parents assosiation is just that... no T in the name.

sadly the teachers and parents at our school are generally on opposing teams, there was war recently when the HT asked to sit in on a PA meeting due to many issues being raised and brought the director of the board of education and another teacher with her and it became a bit of a showdown.

doesn't stop them asking us for money when it suits them though

How many PTAs actually get the chance to discuss general issues of importance to parents and give feedback to the Head?

Our PTA is strictly for fundraising only - not a conduit for parents to express views to the Head and Governing body. That is an important role I think a PTA should do. It does not happen in our school.

Personally, I think that it's nice if a teacher turns up to a after-school event but there's no way they should be expected to do a Saturday event.

Our school's big summer fair is attended by most staff and the staff generally help at discos.

Any jumble sale of cake sale is accompanied by books sorted out by the school librarian, so really, our teachers are probably more committed than the majority of parents.

The PTA has a small group of very committed parents but all other parents chip in with cakes and things.

Ours does, BeenBeta, to a certain extent. Two of us who attend regularly are also Parent Governors, so well placed to talk to the appropriate people about issues that come up. The Chair also has regular chats with the Headship team and School Business Manager, to keep communication flowing.

That said, one parent did rather innappropriately barrage our School Manager with a whole variety of issues she was angry about, so we have now set a guideline to be read at the start of meetings stating that PTA meetings are primarily for discussing fundraising issues, and fundraising goals - its always ok to talk about other stuff, but its not a forum for resolving school issues really. There isn't time, for one thing.

At the same time as setting up that boundary, we set up a Headship/Governors Surgery for any parent to wander into to talk about random issues - once a month, and we mention it at the start of PTA meetings so people are reminded such a forum exists.

ps you would be very welcome to come and feed our chickens It did take a few years to get parents excited about sorting out the ex-nettle bed that is our allotment - just a handful one Saturday to clear a bit, build one raised bed, and now we have four raised beds and a greenhouse. Don't give up!

Elibean - that sounds like a really well run setup and well done on the veg patch. DSs are leaving the school and going somewhere else whcg does hae a proper garden with raised beds and a greenhouse. No chickens though.

Children in urban schools would find growing things and chickens laying eggs absolutely amazing.

I'm so glad there are many positive PTAs, and parents here on MN that realise the difficulties that teachers face with the demands on their time. Our school PTA are mainly a fund raising group. They hold the purse strings and staff can give requests, but it is the committee that decides how they spend the money. I put requests in for reading books, laptops, maths games, climbing frames, etc. They like things like paying for all the children's school Christmas dinner, having a bouncy castle in school for a day and planting trees in the school grounds.

We reflected on parental involvement and felt the PTA committee was a limited few and we wanted wider feedback and input. We have parent governor surgeries every week and termly questionnaires / feedback forms that all parents can take part in rather than just the 12 or so PTA committee members.

goingmadinthecountry
"It's the ATTITUDE, Goblin. If teachers are dissing PTAs then we may as well not waste our time. They can bugger off and not have the extra 9k a year we raise."
Yes I have an attitude towards our PTA, but only in response to their attitude towards the teachers; their expectation that we attend every meeting and event; that they think (and voice)that we are incapable teachers and failing our children if we don't attend; that they openly critise us in the playground in front of other parents if we miss an event or only attend part of it. But despite this I bite my tongue, smile sweetly and say something limited like "Oh dear", as I've usually given my apologies in advance that I couldn't attend. I am venting here, anonymously and wouldn't dream of saying something to them, regardless of how rude and unreasonable I feel they are being.