Is your PTA truly a pTa?

[emkana]

Ie do the teachers get involved? And if they don't, do you feel they should do more, or do you think they're busy enough as it is?

If the TAs are paid then it still shows the importance that isnplaced on it by the head teacher.

Btw it's not as if I had spent the day in bed until arriving in school at 5 pm...

Not sure what your point is if they aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts then, or a sense of "sharing and community", which you originally cited.

The point is that it is arranged like that, with meetings at school, teachers attending, childcare provided... It makes the parents feel that the school and the parents are in this together. Whereas at our school we meet at the pub, mostly without any teachers there (sometimes one turns up), so it feels totally removed.

why is having teachers there so important????? The chikdren know that teachers value them, their welfare and their education already- they see it all day, everyday.

If you resent the fact that you give your own time and teachers do not- them simply don't volunteer!

The PTA is there to help and support the school deliver what is best for the children, not the other way round.

Maybe teachers would rather meet at school - a group of parents/friends meeting in a pub can seem a little intimidating.

Our PTA advertise the meetings as happening at school, then go to the local cafe without telling anyone instead. A few teachers/TAs have gone to the school place advertised as requested, but found that the meeting is somewhere else. And they would have given up part of their PPA time aswell!

I agree a "thank you" or "well done" for an event is really important, but compulsory attendance ?
I'm sure you are really busy emkana, but my query as to whether you worked is typical of the PTA members at our school that I stuggle with.

Last Thursday - a typical teaching day
6am alarm get my DC ready for school
Take them to child minder and drive to work to arrive at 7.45am
Get classroom ready for day
Children arrive - teach all morning
12.30 - Clear up classroom, set up for afternoon activities, phone two parents and Speech Therapist, eating sandwich as I go, dash to loo just before bell for afternoon goes.
Teach all afternoon. School ends 3.30pm. Parent comes in for a quick chat and leaves 45 minutes later.
Tidy classroom, stack chairs, return resources around school, review pupil targets for week, gather my planning resources, change a wall display, change learning objectives and vocabulary lists on literacy and numeracy display. Pile 2 plus hours of marking into bag to take home, check planning folder, edit Friday?s plans and start writing next week's lesson plans (rest will be finished on Saturday and Sunday, meet with other teacher to plan event, transfer notes made during the day to assessment folder.
It?s now almost 6pm so drive home via a club to collect DD, luckily DH has collected DS from child minder.
Cook dinner, make packed lunches for the following day, hear both children read, check both children?s homework, find PE bag, swimming bag for DS after school and tap dancing uniform for DD.
Shove washing up in dishwasher and washing load in machine, quick ironing stint so we all have enough clothes for tomorrow and weekend.
Have brief conversation with DH. ? ships that pass in the night
8.30pm start marking, then move on to making resources for tomorrows phonics lesson.
11.00pm knackered and brain dead . Hang up washing, empty dishwasher, check we?ve got all uniform laid out for morning and bags by the door. Collapse into bed, ready to start all over again tomorrow.

That?s why I struggle with finding extra time for PTA events.

I didn't say it should be compulsory attendance, absolutely wouldn't expect that! I am willing to concede that teachers are pushed beyond the limits already, and so dont hold it against them if they don't attend. But if they are there I think they could say thank you and maybe stack a few chairs - actually, all the non-PTA parents who were there should have done so even more than any teachers - I just dont attend how you can treat an event that is run by volunteers the same as one run by a commercial organisation.

Understand not attend

Thank you, emkana. I don't feel you have an unreasonable expectation for a "thank you" now and had misunderstood your tone about "we volunteer, so you should too" conversation.
As I said before, I have too many committee members at my school that seem to think we work 9.00 - 12.30 and 1.15 - 3.30 only and should give every second of our spare time to the school, at the expense of our own families, and your posts seemed to make me think that you were of the same opinion.
It got me on my high horse as all the staff at my school bl###y hard and really long hours and some people fail to realise that.

I'm a supply teacher and chair of PTA at my youngest's school.

Teachers are busy - I'd never expect them to turn up on a Saturday but would always appreciate it if they did. We have 3 staff members who regularly attend our meetings and really appreciate it. I'd disagree about PTA being SAH parents - think all of our committee work, at least part time, mainly in professional jobs.

I think a problem is that some PTA parents look on it as their social lives - absolutely no problem, except when they expect others to do the same.

Well, as another PTA-er, I can safely say I would NEVER expect teachers to clear up after an evening event (which is lucky...)

The most I hope for is a few teachers to turn up at events straight after school (as 'normal' attendees) and maybe man a teachers fair stall once a term. Am interested in whether that feels unreasonable - come on teachers, I can take it (daughter of a teacher + education lecturer!)

Interesting to read teachers (to be fair, Abigails!) automatic assumptions around PTA-ers working status. In our committee all of the official committee are out of home workers (mix of pt and ft) - every single role is one that is jointly shared, as none of us have time to manage the role in addition to our own work commitments. Abigail S - your diary sounds very like mine ... I am SE and work pretty much every evening, and most weekends. And am PTA co-chair. And a mug

absolutely agree emkana- a thank you goes a very long way.

This term I have seen teachers give up free time to run afterschool clubs, whole weeks away from their own families to take children on camp, spend hours at the weekend working and attend many PTA events. many parents are extremely thankful for this, but every term without fail teachers are also given verbal abuse when things are not exactly to the parents liking.

On return from school camp a parent once ranted at me because we had put some of the children's clothes in bin liners but had not labelled them, which meant that the parent had to spend approx 5 mins looking at contents of bags to find their own child's. This was at 6pm on a friday when I had not seen my own 2 children all week, and my husband had to take unpaid leave from work to cover some child care.

a little thought and consideration on all sides would go down very well.

amazing how waffly I am after wine

I made the assumption because most of our committee are SAHM, they see it as their social life running meetings that ramble off topic and go on for ages and enjoy adult conversation out of the home. I feel frustrated that they lack the empathy to accept we have a homelife as well. I asked emkana about her work as her responses appeared to be along the same train of though as our committee i.e. we give up our time so you should too, without reflecting on being a JOB and that the teacher has responsiblities out of school.

I'm the only SAHP on our PTA (we tried to introduce friends to the title, but we don't have any :o )and it's the working parents who complain the most about lack of input from staff. I do think there's a certain lack of empathy: 'I'm slogging my guts out for the school after a day at work, so why shouldn't you?' type of thing.

Abigail, maybe it really is a pain at your school but that attitude winds me up because you seem very negative towards your PTA - I work and choose to spend a little of my free time supporting the school my child attends. If I thought the staff had the same attitude towards me as you do towards your PTA I would tell them where to shove it tomorrow. I say this as a teacher and a mum of 4 with a husband working away.

I don't expect teachers to help, but I don't expect them to have such a negative attitude towards well meaning parents. Doesn't reflect well on us as a profession.

If you worked out how much per parent at the school is raised per year by the PTA, then compared it to how much a teacher subsidises the school by buying resources etc, I'm confident you'd find a teacher already contributes as least as much economically as each parent. Isn't that enough?

I'm sorry if I wind you up goingmadinthecountry. But I get wound up too! I attend a good proportion of PTA meetings and events (about once a forthnight), I say lots of thank yous and congratulate them on well organised events and the amount they've raised, I get my class writing thank you letters, I make and deliver tea to the committee if they are in school setting up an event when I am on PPA. Maybe my school is the odd one out, but I get wound up when I am told that I don't care about the children in my class because I don't attend them all; when I NEVER get a thank you for going in to work on a Saturday and my child missing a ballet lesson because I can't be in two places at once. My job is really important to me and I try to do the very best I can, I wake at night worrying about certain children in my class, but it is only a JOB.

Also, many of us help with two PTAs because of our own dcs, on top of all that has previously been mentioned.

Personally I find the PTA is a small group of friends at my school who raise a very small amount of money. To be blunt I raise many times more directing my out of school time elsewhere:
for example I apply for a creative partnerships grant (that's £1500) or hours planning extended school provision and applying for funds for various clubs/ groups and opportunities including holiday schemes (around £7000 awarded last year). These are HOURS of extra work and only some of the funds I've organised in the last few years. I take children to competitions/ trips which run way out of school hours, including many hours on freezing football pitches without a parent in sight (fair enough, most work but I don't HAVE to do this). I go out my way for families every week over and above my job, and I know this is appreciated and I get a lot of gratitude.

I have x many free hours in my life, many already are pumped into my JOB. I do a LOT. PTAs are way down my list. They are essentially a social group with some nice activities for the kids who raise a little extra for frills. I've worked in schools without them, they weren't shit-holes at all and it didn't noticeably impact on resources. I think it's great that there are a FEW parents out there who will go the extra mile, I'd do the same for my kids and do. I'll hang around until late with the keys to the building in an office sometimes which may not be 'wow' in some peoples' books, but without it the events wouldn't happen. PTAs are lovely, it's nice if schools have them, but a few bake sales and a disco isn't earth-shattering and it sounds like a few people need to realise this. In many deprived areas like ours schools have no PTA or ones that raise next to no money, it's sad but we cope.

I am involved with the PTA. At my child's school, which is not the same as the one I work at. I donate goods, attend the functions and support them when I can.

You are raising funds to benefit your children, which is lovely for you but still part of the job for us if we have to be involved.
Teaching is a job, not a vocation, not a deal where you commit your soul to other people's children 24/7.

Some teachers live 15/20 miles away, have their own families and lives and need time with them. Evening meetings and functions are an imposition, fine if you want to, but I hate the 'You weren't at the disco' passive aggressive comments. Why should I be? Do I want to spend another three hours watching your darlings jig about when I could be with my own teenagers?

Social events are still a time when you cannot be yourself if you are teacher, you are still on duty and surrounded by observers of your behaviour, attitudes and alcohol consumption.

Our PTA is lovely, and most of them understand how many teachers feel and the reasons why it might seem that we are less invloved that they would like. Because the majority of parents are reasonable, voluntary attendence and support of activities by teachers is fairly good.

'I work and choose to spend a little of my free time supporting the school my child attends.'

goingmadinthecountry, do you also fully support the PTA at the school you work in, help run or attend functions, go to meetings and stay to tidy up?
As well as teaching full time, managing 4 children and supporting heir school?
Wow!
Impressive.

AbigailS - "I made the assumption because most of our committee are SAHM, they see it as their social life.."

Basically that sums up our PTA - a bunch of busy bodies with nothing better to do. I wish they would just stop doing stuff. Their latest planned event was cancelled due to lack of interest from other parents. Most parents just do not have time for it and frankly I dont see why teachers should teach and then have to turn up to do PTA stuff as well.

Our DCs go to a fee paying school and I just dont understand 'fund raising' in a private school as a concept. Everything is paid for by parents anyway. Indeed, we wrote a letter to the PTA and Headmistress and asked them to stop doing events because parentz are too busy working to earn the fees and just put £25 / term on the fees instead. Then limit PTA activity to asking the parent body as a whole to vote on things to use the money for and use the PTA committe to implement what was voted on.

That suggestion did NOT go down well at all.

at BeenBeta!