VERY TORN ABOUT MOVING DS TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL

[UhOhNotAgain]

DS (6.7yrs) is in year two in a very small local primary with a lovely friendly atomosphere. The headteacher knows all the children and there are only 4 classes and mixed years in all of the classes.

DS has always struggled to meet his targets. He is summer born(birthday end of July) so had only just turned 4 when he went into Reception. He is behind in every area and we are often given extra work to do at home with him. I find it a struggle as he really hates doing extra work at home and has even hidden it! I do read with him and do as much as I can and he has just started an online maths program.

His teacher has confimed that he finds it hard to concentrate and stay on task and is easily distracted. He is given extra help 3x a week within a small group. Homework/spellings etc. are always geared to his "ability" (eg recent spelling tests he was given Y1 words-but he knew how to spell all of them). Sometimes, other children have commented "they are easy/I have harder work than you".

He seems to get on well with most of the children in his class and is always happy to go to school and has plenty of "play dates" etc.

The problem with year 3 is that he will be going into a class of 32-35 pupils. I know that year3 is when the "serious" work starts and feel that he is going to get lost in a class of this size. I'm also worried that he will start y3 being behind and never catch up.

We have started looking at a few private schools in our area and they all have small classes (between 8-15). A friend has just moved her DS (from same class as my DS) and he is coming on leaps and bounds and loves his new school.

I want to do what is best for my DS. I don't want to push him to be academic if he clearly isn't going to be. I just want him to get as much help as possible and not get lost in a huge class.

My concern is that he is happy where is he is and perhaps we should look at a tutor to help him so that he could stay where he is? How will they help him in a private school? Is it really the right move? I'm dreading explaining to him that he is moving to another school and am afraid that more damage will be done by moving him than not.

How have others handled a move with their DC? I suppose I just want someone to tell me I'm doing the right thing and I know no-one can do that but it would help to hear other experiences.

Pagwatch talks sense. I would also add that your DS might well still be catching up. DD1 is August born and struggled throughout Reception and Years 1 and 2 at a State Primary. She went from there to the top class in a 'non national curriculum following prep' and from there to 'the sort of school Xenia approves of'. I think State Schools 'over-accelerate' in the early years, your Summer born boy isn't necessarily not academic.

Another anecdote from my DCs- DS was generally accepted to be very delayed/ query SN- lots of extra support pre school. He grew out of it and is now at a prep school, where he won't have to leave until 13+

Academic school or not, the smaller the class, the more likely he will be bottom of the class (and at some stage notice that fact)

There is no reason to think he will be lost in a large class. Sounds like he is predicted a level 1 for his KS1 mark. That is great, that means he goes into the juniors as 'on the radar', ie someone who needs a bit more help.

There is no reason to think the juniors won't give him that extra help. I think you really need to talk to your current school as well as looking at alternatives....

My DD gets an enormous amount of extra help in a normal state school class....

Are there any other State schools? 32 to 35 seems very big, my DCs school has big classes but it is a maximum of 33 at KS2, and they have lots of TAs and 2 special needs teachers etc.

I would think if he is very unwilling to work in the evenings it could be he is very tired. Does he actually have some kind of learning issue which is causing him to work much harder during the school day? I would at least suggest that you look at very comprehensive eyesight and hearing tests.

Go and talk to his teacher about which areas he is really struggling with. Phonics? Blending? Following instructions? Understanding numbers? Forming letters and numbers?

I have to say I would also be very sad if year 3 was seen as a cut off for my children, after which serious work starts. They are still little, and the best schools see them as such.

Also sounds like they are worrying about his SATS scoring bringing down the average for the year. It is only ever the bottom few that get the extra help in year 2!

Homework did step up in our case. Or rather, the expectation of it to be done. DD went from a (state) class of 33 where homework was set as and when and was not always looked at immediately, to a class of 18 (private) where homework is set on certain nights and is absolutely expected to be handed in on time and staying in at break if it hasn't been. (yrs 4 and 5)

I think the advice to visit ALL alternative schools (state and independent) and see which, if any, 'fit' your ds, is spot on. We did that with primaries for dd1 (she is now at a smallish state primary and very happy).

I'd also add that its very normal for summer born children, possibly especially boys, to only start catching up in Y2 or Y3 - I've seen it in dd's year, with both girls and boys. Lagging behind with reading and maths and suddenly, half way through Y2, they are starting to catch up...

I have a lot of sympathy with your post-DS1 was born August 26th and has a speech problem, and am rather fearful for his times in 30-people classes (which are the only real option).

All I would say is that, if you have the resources for prep school, you have huge choices generally. if your worry is confidence, you could encourage him to do something totally non-academic and well (a sports/art club where age matters less?), or to pursue an 'academic' interest like to a higher level if he enjoys it. You could indeed use a tutor on Saturdays, to avoid post-school fatigue. Or you could find a caring small prep school to take him on.

Basically, you, those who know your DS, and your DS himself (if he is able) need to sit down and identify what you think is key. I think you need to know more firmly what the question is before you can decide if private schooling being the answer-it may or it may not be, and it would depend on the school.

I may have misunderstood as I have skimmed the thread, but you most definitley should not be hoping to get him into a more academic school via a "softer" assessment if you feel that he would not pass the "harder" one at yr3. He will struggle and you need to make sure that he is in his comfort zone, not surrounded by children who soak up information like a sponge and outstrip him academically. He will only thrive if he is academically comfortable.

Thanks for all the replies. It's hard to reply to all questions but I definitely am not looking to put my DS in a more academic school where he would struggle. The main reason we are considering moving him is for the smaller class sizes where he would get more help and not slip through the net.

The homework he receives now is reading every night and a spelling/maths sheet once a week(same as pagwatch) but we have also at times been asked to do extra booklets/phonics/spelling with him. He also has an online maths tutoring programme which I am getting him to do 3/4 times a week. It all helps I think-but I'm not a teacher and struggle with the best way to help/teach him. I have sought advice from the teachers and sn assistants but there comes a point where you think-would he better off elsewhere?

pugsandseals that's what I was thinking.

Do they think he needs assessing for SpLD or anything else? If not, then maybe it is the dreaded league tables that are causing the grief?

From what you say, it doesn't sound as if he is 'slipping through the net'. School have identified an issue, are working with you, SN is involved (?) and specific work is being set directed at his level. It's far from certain such an approach would occur in a different school (especially the SN provision), and I think you really need to judge alternatives against this.

What your last thread really seems to suggest is a fraying in relationship with the school. Your worries about being underskilled could be addressed in a number of ways-either with the school or by employing a tutor for some sessions so that you can see models of how to work well (SN therapists do this all the time-techniques are taught that parents consolidate). More concerning is your worry he is being prematurely 'labelled'. If this is critical, again you need to be very certain about the situation at an alternative school not being similar, especially if that is why you move him. Do you feel you would have more say over how he is treated at a fee-paying school?

DDs class is tiny...only 11 but it works well...you just have to send them to cubs etc to keep it broad.

Does your Ds have an IEP? If not I'd be asking his teacher why not. Does he get extra help at school or are you expected to provide it at home? If he does need extra help you will have to pay for this at private school. I pay over £30/hr for Ds to have support. Being in a smaller class may not be enough.

Ds is at a non-academic school but even so is expected to be working two years ahead by the time he gets into yr 3. I'm not sure he will be tbh. He isn't bothered where he is in the class but some others are acutely aware and get upset. I think that is more of an issue with a smaller class.

Ds is at a non-academic school but even so is expected to be working two years ahead by the time he gets into yr 3

This is what a non-academic school expects? Bloody hell. What happens if your child can't do that? Do they suggest you find 'a more suitable school'?

OP, my DS is at a private school considered to be a bit of a hothouse, and my DS sounds like yours, but I have had nothing but positive experiences...

Like yours, my DS has had extra reading support, is in the same year and has the same homework as yours each week.

Where I am thanking my lucky stars is that the classes are (and always will be) small, and the facilities in the school have turned out to be excellent - the teachers have identified that my son's reading and writing are not keeping pace with his own verbal and comprehensive development, and there are other pointers that have resulted in the booking of an educational assessment which will (depending on outcome of assessment) then lead to more structured and personalised intervention for him. It will have to be paid for on top of fees, but I know he will be getting the best outcome (and I know he will then be continuing to develop at the right pace for him). Whilst I may have received just as good care from a state school, I worry that he could juts as easily have slipped through the net and been labelled a slow developer and ended up losing a lot of self-esteem.

Another point to consider is that private schools do have much more flexibility to hold summer-born children down a year if they feel it best. However the very big downside to this is that you then have to effectively keep them in the private system forever because to switch back into state (and 'miss' a whole year of learning) could be very destructive.

Like the others have said, it's not about private-state but about what will help your DS bloom best (and also potentially about making an irreversable commitment)

MollieO, DS does have a IEP and is on the "School Action" list. They are doing all they can to help him with the resources that they have.

I just feel that within a smaller class, he would get more intensive help and that he would also be able to concentrate better and be less distracted.

With such a large class in Y3, I just feel the teacher and assistant would find it difficult to give him the attention he needs. 3 times a week he is taken out (but with at least 3-4 others) and given extra help.

I've heard that children in private schools are expected to be two years ahead-another reason for considering keeping him back a year. Surely this can't be true of every school?

"Is it really permissible to have 32-35 children in a mixed year class?"

Yes, in England there is no limit to the class size in KS2. I teach a class of 37 and a friend teaches a class of 38. Maud feels that the physical space could be a limit- not always; we don't have a room where the whole class can sit at desks at the same time. It works OK, though.

Indigo I don't know. I was rather surprised at that statement from ds's teacher. He is on ORT stage 9 for reading as is considered to be 'behind'. As a school it has a reputation of being supportive for mild SENs but I still had to push to get Ds the help he needed. I have no idea what level an academic prep school would be working at in yr 3 and I'm not sure I want to know.

OP when you visit these other schools you need to be honest with them regarding your ds's ability and needs. If not you may find yourself in the same or worse position only this time you'll be paying for it.

You put it much more succinctly than me, Serpent. I know of schools which will say that the physical limit to the class is (say) 34 because that's the number of desks they can squeeze in but, as you say, some schools may not see this is an insurmountable obstacle.

My dd has mild dyslexia, verbal and fine motor dyspraxia and dysgraphia. We moved her to a selective independent school in year 3 because she was getting lost in a class of 35. We moved her then because she had no hope of passing the entrance exam in year 6 if we left her where she was as she was falling behind badly. It's worked very well for us and dd is now above the average for her school across the board. She has two sessions with an additional support teacher each week and they've bought in specialist writing programme just for dd. It really is the most amazing school. If you happen to live in the North West PM me and I'll tell you where it is.

Not all independents are like this though. Some are useless at any kind of SEN support, some won't guarantee your child a senior place if they can't pass the entrance and some charge for additional SEN support. I wouldn't just rely on an open day, go and see the school on a normal working day - and grill them about what extra support they can offer.

It sounds as though your DC is getting the support of the school now and I only moved my DD because we weren't being offered any of that. Have you had an ed psych assessment?

I don't think dd's school expects them to be two years ahead, although I understand that common entrance standards expect children to be at GCSE standard by age 13, so I guess schools who offer prep for that would expect younger children to be two years ahead.

Maud, in my class at least half the children work on clipboards while sitting/lying on the floor.

I've pm'd you Helenagrace

Just wanted to add my bit to the discussion. When you consider moving your DS to a private school, please bear in mind that your child will be assessed (at 7 plus) if it is a good school. As far as small class size and more attention is concerned, believe me, it varies from year to year, based on the teacher. A smaller class doesn't really guarantee more attention has been my experience. My DD has been going to a private school (is a summer born) but we've had to work with her all through starting Reception. Homework, spellings, projects (even though fun, not really a part of homework but kids are expected to participate) are all your responsibility. And mums can be very competitive. Also please note, it is a change in more ways than one. After school activities are the norm (tennis, music, football, art etc) and you will need to factor in that cost as well.
My experience with tutors has been lovely - if you can get one to one help for your child from a committed tutor, it can work out much better than paying so much for a private education at this stage.

I hardly dare ask why, Serpent. I am sure yours is a fine school, but does it really need to cram them in like sardines? Is yours the only school for miles around?

Could someone with experience of independent schools explain this two years ahead thing to me? If pupils in prep schools are at GCSE standard at the age of 13, what do they do in the gap between CE and GCSEs? There's only so much sport and enrichment they can do, surely. And if the answer is they continue to forge ahead and are at A level standard by the time they do their GCSEs, what do they do once they're at university, where (by this logic) they must arrive at somewhere near degree standard (assuming they're going to study something they've studied at A level, which I know isn't always the case)?

I'm not being snippy. I really do want to understand how this works.

Don't quite know why this bulge is going through my school either. Probably the HT in a neighbouring school offended a parent, who stormed off with her child, followed by her child's friends. It seems to happen that way. KS1 in our school is dangerously slim at the moment ....