VERY TORN ABOUT MOVING DS TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL

[UhOhNotAgain]

DS (6.7yrs) is in year two in a very small local primary with a lovely friendly atomosphere. The headteacher knows all the children and there are only 4 classes and mixed years in all of the classes.

DS has always struggled to meet his targets. He is summer born(birthday end of July) so had only just turned 4 when he went into Reception. He is behind in every area and we are often given extra work to do at home with him. I find it a struggle as he really hates doing extra work at home and has even hidden it! I do read with him and do as much as I can and he has just started an online maths program.

His teacher has confimed that he finds it hard to concentrate and stay on task and is easily distracted. He is given extra help 3x a week within a small group. Homework/spellings etc. are always geared to his "ability" (eg recent spelling tests he was given Y1 words-but he knew how to spell all of them). Sometimes, other children have commented "they are easy/I have harder work than you".

He seems to get on well with most of the children in his class and is always happy to go to school and has plenty of "play dates" etc.

The problem with year 3 is that he will be going into a class of 32-35 pupils. I know that year3 is when the "serious" work starts and feel that he is going to get lost in a class of this size. I'm also worried that he will start y3 being behind and never catch up.

We have started looking at a few private schools in our area and they all have small classes (between 8-15). A friend has just moved her DS (from same class as my DS) and he is coming on leaps and bounds and loves his new school.

I want to do what is best for my DS. I don't want to push him to be academic if he clearly isn't going to be. I just want him to get as much help as possible and not get lost in a huge class.

My concern is that he is happy where is he is and perhaps we should look at a tutor to help him so that he could stay where he is? How will they help him in a private school? Is it really the right move? I'm dreading explaining to him that he is moving to another school and am afraid that more damage will be done by moving him than not.

How have others handled a move with their DC? I suppose I just want someone to tell me I'm doing the right thing and I know no-one can do that but it would help to hear other experiences.

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

What intrigues me, Serpent, is why your HT would admit these children, knowing that they would spend their lessons sitting on the floor with their work on a clipboard. I can see why they might have flounced from another school, but am nevertheless that anyone - parent or HT - would think that not even having a chair of one's own was adequate or acceptable.

[Saracen]

Might home education be another option?

That allows you to eliminate all unreasonable pressure on your child to perform at a level which is simply wrong for him. You could still use tutors, but do it when your son is fresh and relaxed, and the tutor could work with him at his own pace rather than trying to force him to "catch up."

The expectation of this sort of pressure is one of the reasons why I didn't send my younger daughter to school. Yes, school might well be able to help her cope. But that is not the same as thriving. She would not be doing the same things as other children. Sooner or later she would notice this. I think it must take a toll on a child's self-esteem to be the one who needs extra help, who is always in the bottom set, who may need to be kept down a year. Why should she be made to try to adapt to a curriculum that was not designed with her needs in mind?

So far, it is working brilliantly. Except for her more obvious physical disabilities she is not even aware of how she compares to other children of her age, and why should she be? What matters is that she gets what she needs. If she learns to read at eight instead of five, that is fine. She won't be "behind" because there are no deadlines.

In a few years, with plenty of one-to-one attention from you or a tutor and the freedom to develop at his own pace, your son might be working at a similar level to his age peers and he could go to school then. If not, you could carry on as you are.

[UhOhNotAgain]

Helenagrace, thank you, your school sounds lovely but we are in the South East.

I have made an appointment with DS's teacher later in the week and DH will be coming with me so we'll have a proper talk over everything. I'm hoping things will become clearer then and also when we visit the schools (which will be over the next two weeks).

His levels ATM are Reading 1a/Writing 1b/Maths 1b/Science 1. An average child in Y2 should be around 2b I believe.

Thanks for taking the time to post with all your replies. I need to read over all the posts again as there is a lot of info to take in and much to think about.

[IndigoBell]

At the end of the year a child is expected to be a 2b, so by this stage of year they should be a 2c

[StillSquiffy]

OP we are in Kent, so PM me if you want my own school recommendation

Maud: The good schools do seem to get their children to the key levels faster than state and the way it works (from what I can see) is:-

From age 3 in our school the kids do very full days: at the younger age the school day is 45 minutes longer than a state reception class; by the time they are 8 they will be at school from 8.15 until 5.30, so nearly 3 more hours extra a day. 2 of those hours are taken up by sport in the middle of every day but there is plenty of evidence that lots of physical sport/co-ordination work actually boosts them when it comes to classroom work. But even if you discount that they are still getting an extra hour each day over and above state. Then our school does Saturday morning as well - another 3.5 hrs. So total schooling hours (after taking out assembly/playtime/lunch/sport) is probably about 45% more in private than in state schools, which explains much of the speed of progression.

Factor in the class size and the number of specialist teachers and ability of staff to concentrate solely on teaching (eg class size: 14 with one teacher, one TA, and specialist Sport/Music/French/Drama teachers from reception onwards) which all means (I imagine) that the teachers are able to be much more focused when they are teaching - because no one teacher has to teach for the full day. This in itself is going to help children progress at a faster rate without any kind of hot-housing at all.

Add into the mix the competitive atmosphere that many good private schools promote and the zero tolerance for poor behaviour and the kids themselves get pretty motivated to achieve academically, again without resorting to any hothousing.

As for the question of what happens at the more senior level if they are 'two years ahead'...many children take the 'basic' exams (maths/english/french) a year or two early and then end up with more A/AS levels than otherwise, and many children keep up with a wider range of subjects for longer and only drop and specialise at a later stage. Then when you factor in sport to county/international level in many cases, a compulsory musical instrument for many years, and the inevitable school trips to the far reaches, they keep busy (and keep the parents broke) quite easily.

Of course there are loads of shite private schools so this is all a generalisation, and of course it is not right that many state schools aren't able to deliver something approaching this themselves, but in a nutshell that is the model that parents pay for, and it is the extra hours and the competitive atmosphere and supportive environment that create the differential. The kids are not usually hothoused (though it does happen in some schools), but they are certainly cosseted - which is why they can often struggle in a less structured situation such as university.

Of course the model can be very flawed when it comes to kids outside the normal bell-curve. My DC's school happens to be investing huge sums in SEN support but I know a couple of parents who have had to move their children out of other schools because of sometimes mild AEN.

[mumteacher]

In defence of tutors - we can make activities fun and so the child is learning practically and hence won't be " put off learning!" but enjoys moreso.

Don't thik this thread is about that though.

Anyway - ohnonotagain you need to do what's right by your child. If that's other state school or private then so be it. I'm sure I would up front tell the the schools your son is struggling - after all if they're going to assess him anyway let them figure that out.

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

StillSquiffy - Many thanks. It wss the marking time issue which intrigued/concerned me, but it sounds as if that isn't likely to be the case. Overnight I remembered that in one of my A level subjects we were (supposedly) at mid-degree level by the time we took the exam, but I didn't do that subject at university so it wasn't an issue for me.

[UnSerpentQuiCourt]

Maud, they do have chairs of their own, but in two rooms. I am supposed to supervise one and the TA the other, with the whole class together on the carpet for input, then off to do their worksheets. The thing is, I hate work sheets and want to be able to interact with all of them, hence clipboards on the carpet all in one room. (On my days. My job share partner is big on silence and work sheets on her days.)

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

Aha.

[UhOhNotAgain]

We visited schools this week-Our Ladys, Abingdon and Abingdon Prep, Frilford (formerly Joscas). We have an appointment to see Chandlings next week.

I loved the feel of Ab Prep as soon as I walked in. All the teachers and staff were very friendly and I can see there are benefits to an only boys school in terms of teaching methods etc.

OL I felt was a bit more "tired" looking and the building seemed a bit higgledy piggedly, smaller tech/art rooms but had a friendly, nurturing atmosphere. Having slept on it, my gut feeling was that OL would be a better fit for DS. However, DH prefers AP. He feels that they are stonger sports-wise and really wants him to be involved in team sports (even though he isn't that sporty). He feels that he may grow to enjoy sport more but I'm not sure. The Head of OL admitted that the school is not strong sports-wise and it can sometimes be a bit disheartening for the children-which made DH a bit. I liked the OL Head's approach though of "above all the children's happiness and self-esteem comes first".

Our dilemma is:- AP cannot take him before Y3 (and I suspect Chandlings will say the same). OL have said they can take him now (and seemed to suggest they would take him whatever the outcome of any assessment).

Unless Chandlings is our clear favourite-do we confuse DS by sending him to three separate schools for three different assessments? (Which I'm loathe to do). Another option is to get him to repeat Y2 at one of these schools in which case he would probably pass the assessment. My feeling is that we should start him in September and not after Easter and go with the school that accepts him (DH thinks we should get a tutor to help him pass the assessment to go into Y3).

We also spoke with his current teacher last week. She confirmed that the class size would be over 30 in Y3 but said that there was a group of boys at the same level as DS who would receive extra help. My worry is that they will be taken out a lot and other children will notice that they are "special needs" which could trigger teasing. OL has such small class sizes (11 next year in Y3) that any extra attention received wouldn't be noticed (and the Head stated that they do everything in their power to help the children reach the level the should be at eg having someone read with twice a day, every day if need be).

I'm just offloading thoughts here but would be grateful to hear what anyone else thinks and also any views on the schools mentioned.

TIA.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

My son is a summer birthday with suspected Dyslexia (aged 7.5 in yr3). He is in a prep with 13-15 in the class. Smaller classes really suit him because he gets a bit of 1 to 1 with the teacher or TA if he needs during the course of the lesson. He also has regular sessions with the Learning Support teacher (at no extra cost). I think in the case of my son's school the fact that it is a boys school helps because there aren't any girls racing ahead and the school is geared to the fact that boys often mature a bit later and learn in slightly different ways.

Does you DS dislike sport or is he a bit clumsy or uncoordinated so doesn't really enjoy sport. I only ask because some of DS1's learning issues are linked to him having retained reflexes which we are addressing with an OT. His coordination and handwriting are improving and his ability at sport is increasing.

[rabbitstew]

UhOhNotAgain - just wanting to pick you up on the assumption that your ds's extra attention won't be noticed in a smaller class. I'm not quite sure how that would work; I would have thought it would be more obvious amongst a small group of children. My experience of big classes in big state schools is that a lot of children are taken off in little groups a lot of the time, for all sorts of reasons, and there doesn't appear to be any stigma attached to this whatsoever, nor any intrusive questioning as to why some children go off like this, because it happens to such a large proportion of every class for various reasons. Other than that, I can quite see why you are wanting to look around to find the best fit school for your ds and hope you find what you are looking for.

[BlooCowWonders]

OP your worry that
" they will be taken out a lot and other children will notice that they are "special needs" which could trigger teasing" isn't a factor in my dc's school. Children are regularly taken out of the class to work with another teacher, whether for additonal help, 'stretching' or just more individual time for reading. All the children go out for somethign or another all the time.

I think children know who is the cleverest, or the least able but there's absolutely no teasing or bullying or anything like that in my ds's class (yr 3).

Nothing to contribute to the private/ state debate for you, but just my experience on large class size at yr 3.

[UhOhNotAgain]

Hi. Thanks for your replies.

Chaz, my DS is also seeing a developmental therapist for retained reflexes. I was hoping it would help with his concentration but it's early days as we had our first appointment a month ago. Am glad to hear that it has helped your DS.

He doesn't dislike sport and is happy to kick a ball around but is not very strong at team sports and is just not that interested. He would rather run around playing Star Wars!

Rabbitstew, I can see your point and yes, it might be more noticed actually (if he was taken out of the class). I suppose I was thinking that in a smaller class, any teasing would be noticed and not tolerated or that any extra tuition would be done in the classroom with a TA instead of him being taken out.

[namechangesgalore]

Stillsquiffy - what about the much longer school holidays though for your 45% more time in school calculation. OK it wouldn't wipe all the extra out but there must be, what four weeks more of holiday?

[rabbitstew]

StillSquiffy - you say the model you describe for private schools is not hothousing... I dread to think what is. You describe young children who have their activities, during almost every waking hour between Monday morning and Saturday lunchtime, dictated to them. You make it all sound rather rigid and regimented. I'm not surprised they need longer holidays to recover from it! Would you please describe what hothousing actually is, if not this?

[StillSquiffy]

First definition that comes up on google is: "Hothouse children are children whose parents push them into learning more quickly and earlier than is appropriate for the cognitive age of the children.....The two keys terms in this definition are push and cognitive age.".But definition is fairly irrelevent, TBH - I was trying to point out that creating an environment that gets children motivated and able to develop to their fullest extent is NOT the same as trying to push them beyond their natural boundaries, and beyond what is healthy for them.

Yes, you could see the structure as very rigid, but if the long hours sound like hothousing to others, then fine - it suits me and I consider myself very fortunate to have the option for my DCs. The days are long but the kids are doing two hours of sport (of their choice) every day and coming home happy and exhausted every night, which accounts for much of the long days so I don't see the structure as a problem. My DC's have learnt how to make fires and whittle wood and climb trees as part of this school structure which seems to me to be far less 'rigid' than the education I see some of their friends getting. I'd like to think that if I was not lucky enough to have this schooling option I would spend the time after school doing all of these things with them myself, but TBH I think I would probably be just taking them to gym or trampolining or similar, which I think is less imaginative than the options they get at school. My kids get up at 7 and go to bed at 7, and if the hours between 8 and 9am and 3.30 and 5pm weren't spent at school I'm not sure what I could fill them with that they'd enjoy as much as they enjoy their time at school (Nintendo DS time excepted...)

Namechanges yes you are right - I had forgotten the extra holidays - there are almost 9 weeks extra holidays, which equates to a 24% differential, thus halving the effect of the longer teaching day. Motivation and the working environment therefore seems to have a higher relative impact than I initially thought.

[rabbitstew]

Thanks, StillSquiffy. You gave the impression in your previous post that your children spent their whole time involved in very formal, academic learning or doing sport (without mentioning they had much in the way of choice as to which type of sport), which obviously isn't the case. If I worked full time and therefore didn't have the time or energy to do the things I currently enjoy doing with my children, I would also consider myself very lucky to be able to afford to send them to a school that had the facilities and ability to keep them busy, constructively entertained, well educated and happy in my absence.