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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Play fighting on the playground

29 replies

littlefishexpat · 17/02/2011 20:44

My DS is 5 and in YR1 at a lovely independent school. Since the beginning of the year he has been to see the PrePrep head 3 times and has spent many playtimes on the naughty bench -- all because of play fighting on the playground. But here is where it gets complicated, sometimes it's allowed and sometimes it isn't. The Y2 boys are allowed to play because they are able to control themselves and stop before anyone gets hurt. Some of the Y1 boys are beginning to figure out this concept as well and are now allowed to playfight. This isn't a concrete thing, it's more of a general guideline. Apparently, my DS has not figured out the difference between fighting hard and fighting soft and consequently hurts some of the other boys.

These vague guidelines of what is allowed and what is not change based on which teacher is supervising the play time. I have gone to several of them individually to ask and they have all given me different answers and I'm getting extremely frustrated. My son is frustrated and confused. He understands that he's just trying to do what the other boys do, but that it's just not working out!

I've met with the preprep head and his teacher this week and we have some plans to put in place after half term, a behavior diary and reward charts.

But I have a few questions for the MN community:
Is playfighting normally allowed on playgrounds?

Can a 5 year old boy be expected to understand the difference between fighting hard and fighting soft and be able to act accordingly?

How long should I let this go on before I speak with the head directly?

Is my son EVER going to figure this out?!? And if it takes him too long will he get a reputation for being too rough?!?

FWIW -- we're expats trying to figure out the education system here and are aware they we don't always get it right!

OP posts:

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 20:51

Your son will figure it out. Boys enjoy playing roughly, and it just takes trial and error to figure out where the boundaries are. As long as he thinks he's just playing, and is not being vindictive, then let his punishments teach him when he's gone too far, and he'll soon figure it out.

clam · 17/02/2011 21:26

I've been teaching over 25 years and have never been in a school yet where play fighting is allowed. At any age.
It's just asking for trouble. Am astounded that this school allows it, to be honest.

meditrina · 17/02/2011 21:32

Agree with clam: schools I've known ban all forms of fighting (though it's sometimes difficult to distinguish from boisterous physical play). In a school playground environment, I'd agree it's too easy to get out of hand, and a ban is better than expecting small boys to self monitor.

Martial arts classes are a brilliant way to learn a disciplined approach, and to learn to control and direction. Do you have any nearby?

Original poster

littlefishexpat · 17/02/2011 21:39

BristolJim thank you I really appreciated your message of confidence!

clam & meditrina - I agree with you regarding a ban. It just makes more sense to me. It's funny you mention martial arts -- the school provides m.a. training once a week! Maybe my son just hasn't caught on yet.

Do you think it's overstepping to talk to the head about this?

OP posts:

tribpot · 17/02/2011 21:40

Gosh, I don't think play fighting is allowed at ds' school (he is 5). Certainly snowball fighting isn't. In the morning they will chase each other around but anything resembling fighting gets a stern rebuke from the relevant parent - ds is one of the youngest and so would be totally overwhelmed if one of the older boys decided to play fight.

They are all pretty gentle, the school encourages that. As it should, frankly!

pippibluestocking · 17/02/2011 21:43

Play fighting is banned at DD state juniors since child ( year 5 I think) broke his arm. Not convinced that older boys do know when the limits.

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 22:04

Play fighting is an important part of growing up as a boy. Denying this and encouraging 'gentleness' is to deny the true nature of boys. Schools need to channel this aggression, not deny it.

Cowboys and Indians, War, Bulldog are all playground classics for a reason.

SiriusPink · 17/02/2011 22:09

No playfighting at the DCs junior school.

Lots of games like 'tag'/ 'it'/ chasing type / pretend shooting games are played, but if there is any prolonged physical contact or hanging onto clothes etc it gets stopped pretty rapidly.

Think it's fair enough. The boys get to burn off energy and testosterone without hurting each other or ripping clothes....

clam · 17/02/2011 22:11

"Play fighting is an important part of growing up as a boy." So, you as a parent can allow it at home. We teachers are not prepared to deal with the inevitable fallout when a "pretend" kick over-reaches and hits its target, causing injury, retaliation etc.. plus the half hour of follow-up, form-filling, notifying parents etc.. all when we're meant to be teaching the next lesson.

"Cowboys and Indians, War, Bulldog are all playground classics for a reason." Sure, but in a crowded playground it simply isn't safe to have hordes of kids charging round, sending other kids (not in the game) flying.

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 22:14

Ah well, as long as it makes your life a bit easier then...

Littlefish · 17/02/2011 22:22

It's not to do with making teachers' lives easier, it's about ensuring the safety of the children in our care.

clam · 17/02/2011 22:23

Oh ffs, BristolJim! You clearly have NO IDEA about managing children in a primary school setting.
What littlefish said.

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 22:29

Playfighting is safe, ffs, we're hardly talking about letting them loose with samurai swords and nunchucks. You're feminising a whole generation of boys for the sake of avoiding a bit of paperwork, and this secondary 'it's all about safety' excuse just doesn't wash I'm afraid.

Let boys be boys, even if it does mean a bit of extra paperwork now and again.

clam · 17/02/2011 22:33

The paperwork is the least of it. It's the injury to the other children and the fight that inevitably ensues that's the issue. Small children can't police themselves and we have a duty of care to all the kids on the playground and must provide a SAFE play environment for them. That does not include allowing kids to leap around doing karate kicks and ripping each others shirts.
Get real, BristolJim.

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 22:42

Of course small children can police themselves, they've been doing it for generations. Sadly, they're just not given the chance any more because apparently, we must protect the clothing at all costs!

Jebus, I despair.

BeenBeta · 17/02/2011 22:43

I am very surprised that the school allows any play fighting.

IME with our 2 very well behaved boys - play fighting inevitably turns to real fighting and that is true all the way up to Yr 6.

As clam says it just asking for trouble. We have never allowed it at home.

Our DSs go to Judo and practice that at home as well as at the Judo club. It is a very good sport.

SiriusPink · 17/02/2011 22:48

Playfighting doesn't have to involve kicking the shit out of each other for 'boys to be boys' Jim. Cowboys and indians doesn't have to involve rough physical contact does it? In my day it meant running around with a pointed finger shouting 'bang bang' or whooping owowowowowowo with your hand in front of your mouth.

I expect it's tugging/ kicking/ wrestling type of playfighting which isn't allowed (at least that's the deal at our school). That's fair enough, but it ALWAYS ends up with a child being caught up in it and hurt.

Not sure I agree 'aggression' needs to be encouraged but there are certainly lots of alternative ways of encouraging boys to healthily burn off energy - sport, athletics, street dance etc etc.

If you're OK for your kids to wrestle in the garden, then fine, but they need to learn there's a time and a place. I hate it when I see kids rolling around the playground, fighting, right in front of their mothers at pick-up time, and they (the mothers) say /do nothing. These will be the same kids who think nothing of brawling in the street in ten years time when they're pissed.

Good habits start young....

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 22:54

Playfighting doesn't have to involve kicking the shit out of each other for 'boys to be boys' Jim.

I expect it's tugging/ kicking/ wrestling type of playfighting which isn't allowed

I'm not advocating fighting, just that clamping down on playfighting is a ludicrous over-reaction on the part of people who do not understand boys, and think that the best way to treat them is to pretend they are girls.

Not sure I agree 'aggression' needs to be encouraged

Not sure I said it did.

Goblinchild · 17/02/2011 23:03

Vigorous sport, cold showers and no mollycoddling, that's the way to make a chap a real man.
BJ, instigate some Swedish Drill at playtime, followed by press-ups and some circuit runs.
Channels all that energy and makes 'em strong.

BristolJim · 17/02/2011 23:04

Now you're talking! By Jove, we'll soon win the Empire back!

BeenBeta · 17/02/2011 23:06

Goblin- "Vigorous sport, cold showers and no mollycoddling."

That's called boarding school.

Goblinchild · 17/02/2011 23:10

BJ, I think we are definitely talking BS.
remove your child from mainstream and immerse him in BS straight away.

SiriusPink · 18/02/2011 09:14

yes... BristolJim is definitely talking BS... as in BullShit....

There are so many other ways boys can burn off energy/compete competitively/and be 'boys' without it having to be 'fighting'.

If you want your boys to fight, then great, enrol them in a judo/ martial arts/ fencing or even rugby club. Just keep it out of the playground, where it's impossible for the teachers to manage in a meaningful way, and it too quickly escalates into real fighting and even a cover for bullying - the bigger/older child says 'we were just playfighting' and the younger/quieter/uncertain one whispers 'no, we weren't....
As the OP has said, it's the 'grey' area of what is/isn't playfighting that causes the problem. Much easier to have a clear cut rule.

Public fighting isn't something widely encouraged in society, so why set your kids off down the wrong path by letting them think from an early age that it is? If you allow them to 'play fight' up to 10 or 11, when do you suddenly tell them they're too old - when they're 12 or 13 and taller than you?

We have 2 boys (now 11 & 9) and have seen lots of different parent opinions on this one. One of my friends has a DH who seems to share BJ's opinion. Their kids are just constantly at each other - in the street, in the park, in the cinema, at the dinner table - tugging/kicking/tripping/punching/pulling/head butting each other. They know no boundaries and are a nightmare to be with. One has a behaviour management plan at school. When they are at ours and I ask them to behave (e.g. when they started scrapping at the table and knocked over a bottle and glasses) what does their father say, "oh, leave them to it - they're just play-fighting"

FFS - no they're not, they're just badly behaved little sh*ts.

Sorry OP, but I don't think your school sounds like it is handling it very well....I'm not surprised your wee lad is confused!

Bucharest · 18/02/2011 09:18

Play fighting= oxymoron.

BristolJim · 18/02/2011 09:27

Oxymoron = oxymoron.

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