What is gay?

[Supermumz]

DS aged 8 asked me the meaning of gay. Picked it from school I think.. What do I tell him? Do your kids know?

And for anyone who thinks it's OK to use it in thie way (people have tried telling me that it is a completely different, 3rd meaning for the word!) just try substituting "black" or 'disabled" and see if it sounds like a new third meaning for those words too!

It'll be a black day indeed when words are allowed only one meaning and language is not allowed to evolve...

Yeah, right. So teenagers using "gay" to mean pathetic is language evolving through usage, is it? Just coincidence that the word evolving happens to mean homosexual. as I said, yeah, right.

Sinister means left-handed. Except it doesn't any more, does it?

Whatever.

I'm with you seeker.

Any word that takes on negative meaning as a way of insulting someone is not evolving but is reinforcing stereotypes and trying to maintain control over a minority group.

(If the minority group seize that word back and reclaim it in order to reverse its negative connotations then that may be different).

My ds (7) wrote "Have a gay Birthday" on his older (22) brother's Birthday Card. I pulled him up on iot as I thought he was using the term Gay as an insult (he does know what it means, and also that I don't like it being used as an insult) but he turned round to me and told me he meant gay as in happy :o

Maybe, Pixie, but while the word has negative connotations then we should be thinking of its impact at the time of usage. Gay, at the moment, has a negative use amongst pre teens.

So, pixie, you would be quite happy if your children started using "black"of "disabled" to mean pathetic and useless? "That sandwich was really black" "Your hair looks really black" "Mr Smith gave a really disabled lesson today"

After all, it's just language evolving, isn;t it?

Calling my granny a "cunt" is just language involving too. She understands that cunt is the new way of describing "generous" and "accommodating".

Pixie, it is about what is acceptable at the moment. Language is about common usage at the time that it is used. It evolves very subtly.

I don't suppose there were many Vandals around to be upset by the pejorative use of Vandals in modern English. But there are plenty of gay school children around whose lives will not be made easier by the word being used for simultaneously for their sexual orientation and for anything that is substandard or lame. It's as scurry says, it's about where language is at now. The same with Paki, which is also used as an insult: it is the fact that it is likely to upset people who are actually around now.

Language change is often driven by youth, who take the language into the future as a new generation adopt their own standards of usage.

Examples on this thread (like Narnia) show one evolution of "gay" within living memory as already. We might be witnessing another.

I agree that if it is used as a deliberate insult/slur, that is wrong, and I would correct my DCs. But it is beginning to appear as a general synonym for "lame" (which if you think about it, also started as a physical characteristic, but when you hear it in this context, does anyone ever think "disabled"?). Teen slang is altering the meaning of many words; most are fleeting, some stick. This is one to watch.

Pixie, you are right in that we can't stop the process -neither should old farts like me us stop using any word in an attempt to alter its meaning. If it is currently offensive, then do not run the risk of offending.

When gay peopel are happy for the word 'gay' to mean pathetic, lame, useless - then I will be happy for my children to use it too. Until then I will continue to tell them - every time I hear it - that it is offensive and helpes to legitimate homophobia.

I don't think the tide of language change can be halted - after all "bitch" and "ho" took on wider usages recently without the consent of women. And even words such as "nigger" are being used again in some communities, even when they remain unthinkable in others. [And I see that the term "lame" has again been used as a synonym for pathetic, when it's original meaning was a form of disability].

Words are not "owned" by anyone.

DSis 10yo, about 2 years ago he came back from school saying "X said I was gay because I support xyx football team!" I told hem that being gay had nothing to do with supporting a football team or another but all to do with the fact that sometimes, a man has feelings of love for another man or a woman had feelings of love for another woman.

I wouldn't let my children say "bitch" and "ho" in my presence either! ANd actually, they haven't taken on a wider meaning, they are still offensive words to describe women. It has just becoame more acceptabe to use the words.

I think people are just too scared to challenge this stuff for fear of being thought stuffy or stuck up or not "down with the kids"

"I hope that doesnt confuse him.. He still believes that its girlfriends for boys and boyfriends for girls.."

If you'd just told him in the first place that people can have boyfriends or girlfriends, then that would be a lot less confusing than initially pretending there are gender constrainsts on these things then having to explain that actually there aren't. Still I think he'll cope with the explanation!

I'm not a fan of 'gay' as an insult, I realise the meaning of words evolves, but this is a bit of a different thing, taking a word that a historically much-abused minority has used (and still uses) to proudly identify and describe themselves and turning it into an insult. That seems a very deliberate and hateful thing to do. I also dislike 'lame' for similar reasons. Or is it just complete coincidence that 'straight' or 'able-bodied' haven't become the new words for pathetic and useless?