Should school make sure 5yo DD goes to Spanish?

[AnnieLobeseder]

I need your advice please, wise MNers, before I start ranting at DD1's school.

She's 5yo, in year 1. A letter came home at the beginning of term offering Spanish lessons, with a private company, at lunch time one day a week. At a not insignificant price.

DD1 was very keen. We're a bilingual family, and she loves learning words in different languages, so I signed her up.

We're 4 weeks in. She has yet to go to a single class. Excuses have ranged from "I forgot" to "I was shy" to "I didn't want to".

I place a fair share of the blame on DD1. This evening she learned that I was not making idle threats when I told her that nothing in Spanish class could possibly be as scary as Mummy if she didn't go today.

But AIBU (wrong topic, I know!) to think the school should bloody well be making sure she gets there? It's in school hours, they're supposed to be in charge. Surely, even though they're not actually running the class, they're hosting it, and should treat it like maths, assembly or any other class which they would ensure DD1 attended?

If the classes are only available to those who can pay for them, they are not enrichment classes.

But your daughter was reminded to go, in fact another child was sent to take her (the buddy) so as she still won't go, it's a fair assumption that she doesn't want to go.

"This evening she learned that I was not making idle threats when I told her that nothing in Spanish class could possibly be as scary as Mummy if she didn't go today"

That looks very much, in the context of a five year old and an adult, like forcing her to do something she does't want to do.

I run lunchtime classes at some schools and what I do is round up the children that I need to teach. Some of them don't want to come sometimes initially, but really do enjoy it once they are there. I also liaise with the teachers. Even though teachers aren't paid at lunchtime, the ones I've met have been very accommodating and helpful.

I would contact the people running the classes and tell them the problem. They should be used to this sort of thing.

It won't take many classes until your DD realises that every "Monday" she goes to Spanish at lunchtime.

IME it is good for children, especially as some get to know children in other years, which is what you said you want for your DD.

I'll say this once more for the people who missed it the first couple of times.

She does want to go. She loves languages and is very keen to learn Spanish. However, she has suddently become very shy and is too scared to physically walk into the classroom without an adult accompnaying her.

Are we all clear now?

Midday supervisors are employed to supervise the children over the lunch break and obviously the head and deputy are available too. In reality there are always some teachers and TAs around, but they will usually be working or having lunch, but will step ion if really needed.

I haven't read the whole thread, but she is 5 years old, if you remind my 5yo he will have forgotten 30 secs later!

If she was keen they should take her there but if she decides she would rather play then they should let you know each time - it should then be up to you to cancel the lunchtime classes and maybe arrange them for after school or weekend - you are paying for it after all.

We are a bilingual family and DS (5) enjoys a bit of Spanish at school at the moment, but that's during lesson time and he is keen to learn more which I do with him whenever he is interested.

Dear scary mummy OP. I understand your frustration, and have a child of similar age so understand their changeability. However, I sense this is as much about the money you have paid out, and I don't deny this is annoying, as a wish for your dd to learn a new language and be socially more confident. What you quoted as having said to your daughter came across as pretty intimidating tbh.

curtaincall - yes, being scary is my main tactic for getting the DDs to behave themselves. I will not pander to DD being shy; as I've said, shyness ruined my childhood. My plan is to make overcoming shyness the less scary option.

As it happens, all I did was send her to her room.

If anyone has a better tactic to help a child overcome shyness, I'm all ears.

However, I didn't start this thread to ask if you think my DD actually wants to do Spanish, or for comments on my parenting, I just wanted to know where I stood with the school on getting her to class. I appreciate you all taking the time to comment, but you're missing my real question.

I think you've been told clearly enough that this is not an issue for the school, whatever your demands expectations. It's between you and the person taking your money for a service.
Just as if it was an after school club run by an external body.
So, do you have any other question you need a direct answer for?

I apologise if I got it wrong. You did ask for advice and were thoughtful enough to lay out all the details leading up to your question, so I would have thought every part of your thread was of forensic interest. Therefore when I suggest that your response to your DD was intimidating, I wasn't judging your parenting skills so much as trying to reflect how it might seem from a child's perspective.

Like you, I suffered from debilitating shyness as a child. This was made worse each and every time someone tried to make me 'come out of myself'. Not engaging was where I felt safest when those around me were often dominant and overpowering - I would say it was like a refuge. The more rigid and unbending the adults were, the more I retreated. Eventually, in my own good time, I started to make friends and find a space in the world for me.

Answers can often be found in previously unseen places.

OK. Shyness.

Shyness is NOT something you can overcome at will at the age of 5.

As an adult you can say "I realize that if I allow my shyness to overwhelm me I will miss out, so I will make a conscious decision to, as they say, feel the fear and do it anyway."

You can't possibly do this at 5. And the worst possible thing you can do to a shy peson is to force them to do stuff they find practically impossible to do. She's not anughty, or doing it pon purpose. She's scared. She may be bonkers to be scared, but that doesn't make her any less scared. She's 5 - in a years time she'll be 6 and everything will be different.

"My plan is to make overcoming shyness the less scary option."

IME and IMO this is a very risky option. It is very likely to backfire massively and make your DD even more timid and afraid of things AND afraid of not doing it too.

This can then cause immense stress or such a young child and can lead to depression. depression in a five year old is a most awful condition. Another thing as potential consequence of causing a child that elevel of stress and confused fear (esp confusing as means she is scared of doing something and ot doing it because of consequences) is conditions such as selective mutism.

From my own experience I think you have to take shyness much more gentle personally.

But then I don't like the use of fear as a sanction for children or for getting children to do what you want them to do anyway.

Many people have answered thre "real question" - it is an external group, therefore you need really to deal with the club. The teachers and teachig assistants are not "on duty" at lunchtime and it is nt their job to get her there and certainly not to force her there. The club can decide if they are going to get her there. I did recommend speaking to the teacher and see if they can help out as a one off. It seems that you have done this and they have offered to help next week.

My DC, (5&6) go to Spanish after school, sometimes reluctantly, I have perservered as I believe the benefits outweigh, they are in small groups with friends in same and other years.
I think your dd is probably frightened of the unknown, new place people, experience, If you could get her there onece she might be more likely to go back, if the experience is favourable, she probably just needs an adult to take her. Bribery / reward for attendance in the future might help. Five year olds don't manage well if they see it as an option. Either the spanish provider or someone at school needs to help for the first few occasions. Good Luck

Sorry, but I don't think you can expect the school to do anything more than remind them. In offering a buddy they are already going above and beyond, I totally understand why you're annoyed but maybe you're going to have to put it down to a lesson in the fact that your DD isn't mature enough yet to be put in these situations (and there is no element of judgement in that, 5 is very young).

IloveJudgeJudy said she rounds up the children she needs for the class. That makes sense to me. Some posters seem to think it's entirely up to a 5 yo to remember to be at the right club on the right day at the right time. We haven't done lunch time clubs yet but I am confident mine wouldn't manage that.

I think it is up to the private company who are being paid to teach your child Spanish to ensure she attends not the school. The teacher has reminded your daughter and organised a buddy to go with her and to be honest I don;t think you can expect more. Teachers are entitled to have a lunch break although most work at least part of the time.

At least it's in the lunch break! Where I work, there is a private music business in the school which pulls kids out of lessons. I find that quite strange, and I thought it was unusual. I was interested to hear about it in the UK. I wonder how the school would feel and whether it would give me space to set up my remedial reading business!

My opinion regarding the little girl who wants to go to Spanish, but then bails out, is that the alternative of playing with her friends is just too attractive. 5 year olds are rather 'in the moment'! And no, I can't quite see that it is teacher's job to escort children, rather it is the private providers to round them up.

I do do 'private work' in schools, but teachers do not remember to send the children, neither do the children, even much older ones! They need to be collected.