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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

DS (age 8) was only child not 'chosen' for football team, so sent 'down' to play with year below at games?

51 replies

Legacy · 08/02/2011 18:03

Surely this can't be good/right?

DS (who is 8) says that in his (small) class 7 of the boys were chosen for a football match next week, and that he was the only one excluded, so in Games today he was told to go and play with the year below as his class were practicisng for the match

If that's true, I am
How could they exclude just one child out of 8? Why couldn't they just rotate substitutes?
I am doubly as he is youngest in class and has self-confidence/ self esteem issues as it is. We have been having discussions with the school already about 'working together to build his confidence' - pah!

OP posts:

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jonicomelately · 08/02/2011 18:05

That's completelyt wrong imo.

You should have a word with the teacher.

nigglewiggle · 08/02/2011 18:07

That sounds awful. I would check with the teacher first before jumping in with both feet, but if it is true i'd be very .

LostArtOfKeepingASecret · 08/02/2011 18:09

I would check that this is true (my children have a lovely way of spinning the truth). But if it is true, than no, it isn't right.

Original poster

Legacy · 08/02/2011 18:37

Oh gawd - I hate confrontations about stuff like this.

Thing is, I suspect it IS true - we've had similar sorts of issues in the past.

He's a very quiet, shy sort of boy, and gets really upset about anything that makes him 'different'. This sort of thing just sets us back with him.

OP posts:

warringtontutor · 09/02/2011 21:30

Why could he not have been a sub? How rude!

tonythetyger · 09/02/2011 21:42

In my awful primary school one teacher wrote a play for our class of 6 with 5 parts in it. Guess who didn't get a part? And yes I still remember it. My parents only found out at the class performance.

BristolJim · 09/02/2011 21:42

Not everyone can be on the school time I'm afraid. If it's what he really wants, then without beating around the bush, he needs to practice more.

If it's not what he wants, then there's no problem surely? Besides, surely picking him for the team when he's not ready would hardly be the best way to address any confidence issues.

pippop1 · 09/02/2011 22:21

BristolJim, I think this is a rather cruel public school sort of attitude that I thought had died out. It would be fine if just half the class was chosen, but to leave just one out seems nasty.

Pterosaur · 09/02/2011 22:29

In a class of 8 boys, it's unlikely that all the chosen 7 will be the cream of footballing talent, BristolJim. 8 seems like the ideal number to take to a 7-a-side match to me.

BristolJim · 09/02/2011 22:29

You would rather he embarrassed himself in public by being made to play when he is clearly not ready? That just seems cruel...

Better surely to let him practice until he is good enough get win a place in the team on merit rather than sympathy? Boys aren't daft, and they know when someone on the team isn't pulling their weight.

IloveJudgeJudy · 10/02/2011 09:59

BristolJim, you are exactly the type of person that my DS came across when he was 7/8 and trying to start to learn football. As he had not started when he was learning to walk, unlike some other boys, it seemed to be perfectly OK for him to be the butt of everyone else's jokes.

As the practice for the match was in school time, then I think it is wrong for him to be singled out like this. It is making him even more "embarrassed" as Jim likes to put it.

He does not need to go to the match, but he does need to be included in all class activities. OP, I quite understand how upset your DS was. I think sometimes teachers, or others in authority over DC, don't seem to realise how far-reaching any kind of decision like this is. I'm not any kind of namby pamby type of mother, but I don't like this kind of discrimination which gives other (sometimes quite cruel) children in the class ammunition with which to beat your DS.

anamerican · 10/02/2011 10:59

I so empathise with you on this one. I don't think my son's school ever went so far as to exclude only one boy that is absolutely unacceptable...they would usually only exclude 3 or 4 out of 44. (this almost always included my boys) I honestly don't know what the coaches are thinking...surely let them dress for the game and be included even if they only get to play for a minute or 2. You can't start making such divisions at 8. Your son may have all the potential in the world to blossom at 12 or 13 but if from the age of 8 he is told he is not good enough he may lose the desire, and confidence to achieve this potential. grr just please know you are not alone out there with this problem.

pozzled · 10/02/2011 11:06

How awful- what on earth was the teacher thinking? There's no reason he couldn't be picked as a substitute and allowed to play for the last couple of minutes. Or allowed to come and practise with the team even if he wasn't playing in the match. Or as a last resort allowed to come and watch and 'assist' the teacher by keeping score.

And to BristolJim- I can sort of see your point of view, but how on earth will this child be able to improve his football skills if he is not even allowed to practise with the team? If he's excluded every time they practise, of course he'll never be considered 'good enough' to join the team.

Pterosaur · 10/02/2011 11:18

If you question this sort of decision, some people will assume that you are some sort of namby-pamby, politically correct, anti-competition type, who thinks that nobody should be allowed to shine in case it upsets another child.

That isn't necessarily so at all; I don't have a problem either with competitive sport or team selection, but in my child's primary class, if 7 boys are selected for a match, there'll be about 8 left out, so no individual is going to be too crushed. In a very small class, there is a real problem with singling someone out for exclusion, which a teacher with any common sense or imagination would address.

And the idea that the OP's son is bound to be embarrassed if allowed to play is a bit of an imaginative leap on BristolJim's part: in a class of 8 boys, it's perfectly possible that there are at least 3 team members who aren't much stronger players than the one left out, or indeed that Legacy's son is actually pretty good, but the rest are just a bit stronger. What if there are only 6 really good players available? Should the match be cancelled to avoid embarrassment?

BadBagel · 10/02/2011 15:59

It could be that the school had no say in the maximum size of the team. DC1 had an inter school 5 a-side tournament recently and the organisers had ruled no more than 7 kids were allowed per team. The football coach therefore had no choice but to leave 2 boys out.

princessparty · 10/02/2011 16:05

YANBU.I have sadly come across this sort of thing many many times before.

mattellie · 10/02/2011 17:59

Oh for god?s sake at that age you have rolling substitutes. You simply bring the less good boys on for a few minutes here and there ? longer if you?re winning easily or losing heavily. It?s not fucking rocket science.

Leaving just one boy out, even if he?s the weakest player, is completely unacceptable at that age.

DH works in professional sport, but he thinks this is crap, and can only be the teacher making a deliberate ? and cruel ? point for some reason, which needs to be addressed. He adds that this is exactly the sort of thing which turns children off school sport.

clam · 10/02/2011 18:01

What has being the youngest in the class got to do with it?

BristolJim · 10/02/2011 20:43

Why is it a cruel point? You wouldn't tolerate a teacher giving a child a reading list that he is clearly not ready for. You wouldn't tolerate their maths work being of a level they are not ready for, regardless of what levels their classmates were on.

The teacher has clearly made a decision that the lad is not ready - for any one of a hundred reasons.

Playing representative team sport, you run the risk that your mistake may cause your school to lose the match, and these things matter when you're 8. If the teacher thinks for example that he's not emotionally robust enough to handle this possibility, he can't possibly risk taking him. The teacher has made a judgement call. To label him 'cruel' for doing so, without the full facts of the case is massively inappropriate.

jonicomelately · 10/02/2011 21:11

You are completely wrong BristolJim.
As a previous poster said you would bring this boy on as a substitute and take him off where necessary.
As for your point about risking losing the game, they are 8 fgs.
I'm not anti-competitive btw. I think the worst thing we do in this country (in football) is put children into leagues and focus on winning. That's why we are so utterly crap. Really good coaches don't give a crap about winning at this age. All they care about is children developing their skills. I've seen lots of children develop skills under a really good coach I'd never dream they'd have when they first started out. That's the real way to produce good footballers.

BristolJim · 10/02/2011 21:22

Heh, that's funny.

Unless you're serious....

jonicomelately · 10/02/2011 21:23

Totally serious

Greythorne · 10/02/2011 21:27

I am sure I will be in the minority, but I don't think this is really serious.

Life can't be fair all the time, it was a tough decision by the teacher, but we are not privy to the true reasons, your son has learnt a good life lesson (about resilience, fairness, staying positive even in adversity, that not everyone can be chosen or win) so I would spend some time explaining it to him and leave it at that.

In my experience, kids know very well who is on the A team and who is not, so even if the teacher had done a rolling substitution thing, everyone would have known that your DC would not be in the team selected to play in the tournament.

It would have been unforgiveable if your DC had been told not to play any sport whilst his classmates practiced, but if he got a game with the class below, no big deal.

Sorry.

defineme · 10/02/2011 21:32

I love my ds's football team coach. He gives every new parent a lecture about shouting from the sidelines being inappropriate. Any sniff of violence from the kids and they're ejected from the team. It's the most lovely thing-he's an exprofessional player and really believes that sport can turn kid's lives around-he takes the kids that get into trouble at school under his wing and gives them something to care about. they coach the younger kids and feel good about themselves.
It's very inclusive -talented kids get their chance to shine and kids like my ds regularly get player of the day medals for working hard within their limits.

He'd tell BristolJim that he's talking bollocks

jonicomelately · 10/02/2011 21:36

Greythorne.
I think that principle is OK if there were more boys involved. Both my boys play competive sport and know they've to fight for a place in the team. However, excluding one child sends out a really damaging sign to that individual.
Sport is very important to many boys. It's easy for mums to not appreciate that sometimes.

As for my earlier point I do strongly believe that the dads wankers who run along the touchine screaming at their kids to score and shaking their heads at other peoples' children when they make a mistake are killing the game. Obviously BristolJim disagrees but I think the FA and most schools and sports psychologists would concur with me. Certainly in places such as Spain who've had a decent track record of producing great players recently, there is not the same league culture as in the UK.
What would I know though, not being a man

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