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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

help needed for son please

37 replies

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:03

Hi, can anyone give me any advice on how to help my son? DS is 5 and in reception. I had concerns about how he would fit into school as he is a little 'eccentric' (ie very verbal, enthusiastic and a little overwhelming for some children) also he has been a free reader since he was 2.5 and is very keen on physics so tends to be a little obsessed!

I was concerned about him starting school as I knew he was already very ahead of the curriculum in terms of reading/maths/science but wanted him to go for social reasons and also his writing skills are only average for his age. He is a reluctant writer but has improved since starting school.

He just had his parents' evening and the teacher said that everything was fine except his listening skills. She says he doesn't listen to anything she says. I would definitely believe this to be true as he 'tunes things out' if he is uninterested. We often tell him off for this ourselves.

My problem is this. I think his listening skills are poor because he is unstimulated at school. He can do all the work already (apart from the writing). However I feel he SHOULD listen to the teacher - but how can I motivate him to do so when he is not interested in what she is saying? I know he definitely can pay attention when he wants to; I have taken him to science lectures and demonstrations for older children and he will sit happily, listening to every word, with his hand up for all the questions.

I don't want to home educate him for the reasons I have already given plus he tells me he likes going to school. They are putting him into a group with a TA to help him learn 'speaking and listening skills' (his speech is excellent). The thing is, is there actually anything wrong with him? I feel like he should listen to his teacher but what is his motivation? As for getting his work extended, the teacher does what she can. He has skipped the ORT reading scheme altogether and is on novels plus he has special maths targets. (They haven't done any of the scince that he is really into; I don't suppose they will do for years).

So what do I do? In years to come he will need to listen but right now he has no reason to. What can I do to help him?

Sorry this is so long!

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Threelittleducks · 06/02/2011 11:09

That's a hard one. Hopefully someone be along soon who has more knowledge than me.

I know how I feel if I have to sit in on a class at uni that's a bit slow for me (2nd degree) and it can be really hard to listen, pay attention, especially if I know it already and it doesn't interest me - so I can imagine how hard it must be for a 5 year old!

I had a friend like this at school and I know her parents sent her to a lot of extra after-school stuff to build up her social skills. Things like learning a musical instrument so she could join the orchestra, singing in the choir and joining the after school drama group.
They found that the more social stuff she did, the more she was inclined to act like her peers in class, who she built up a rapport with through these extra activities, plus she was stimulating her brain in other ways.

What about after-school stuff for you ds? Something like scouts or something - teaches a looser kind of discipline and different kind of learning which he could then take with him tot he classroom?

cybbo · 06/02/2011 11:11

Does he know the skills required to be a good listener?

we assume children know what to do

By 'not listening' is he fiddling on the carpet, not looking etc, or talking over the top of her

All these are different problems that can be solved in different ways

cybbo · 06/02/2011 11:12

And fwiw there has been research to show that childern can only listen really actively for a minute of every year of their age. So reception would be 5 mins max

bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 11:15

It sounds like he his very bright but has some difficulties with social communications?

Obviously he can talk well, but does he talk "at" you on his terms rather than having a proper conversation? Does he say what he wants to say rather than what has been asked, or maybe he doesn't always understand the question? Does he take things very literally?

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:17

It is definitely 'selective listening'. I can be standing right in front of him repeating the same thing and if it is dull (to him) he seems to be able to switch right off and think about something else entirely.

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bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 11:21

Mmmmmm, so he finds some conversations dull. Does he like to have conversations that other people, particularly peers, find dull?

Maybe he's finding it hard to understand that in school and other scial situations, you have to listen and interact in order to be effective?

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:21

bigTillyMint, he can be a great conversationalist when he wants to be. However there are times when he will talk over the top pf me or ignore my question and start asking an unrelated one of his own.

He can be very sensitive and kind too. He is not literal but can be very creative and imaginative (very good with small children etc). I would say that he has such a rich inner life that he just goes off into it when real life bores him. It is very annoying however when someone is trying to 'reach' him.

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Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:25

I feel bad as sometimes I get really cross with him for being like this and he is actually a lovely child. Now he is getting labelled as a poor listener in school only 5 months in and as someone who needs extra help. It is worrying.

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bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 11:27

Well, it could simply be that he's finding the classroom / level of teaching seriously understimulating and so he can't be bothered with it?

Or maybe he just doesn't quite "get" why and how people usually listen to each other and try to interact through communicating?

Can he "read" facial cues and gestures?

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:32

I think his social skills are not so good but have improved since he went to school. I know he can listen intently when he wants to. It's more that he is choosing not to when things don't interest him (or when he knows it's to make him do something he doesn't want to do. I think he may be quite passive aggressive this way.)

He can be charming and a great conversationalist when he wants to be. He is great at 1 to 1 (especially with adults)and appalling in larger groups.

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bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 11:39

Aaah, he finds large groups of children difficult, but is great on a 1:1 with adults.

Well, whatever the reason for his difficulties, it sounds like he does need support to learn how to communicate effectively with others, particularly peers, so the social-communications group-work with the TA should be beneficial. Although he is well above average for certain academic areas, he needs support with social-communications skills. Without these skills he will struggle in school as he gets older, and probably outside of school.

Threelittleducks suggestions of getting him to do more with peers outside of school could also help him. Does he enjoy playing with peers? Is it only on his terms?

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 11:44

He is still learning how to play with peers. His teacher says he plays well with other children.He didn't go to nursery so I knew he'd be a bit behind in his social skills.

Yes hopefully the group will help him. I have tried to get him to do martial arts and french class but he has violently opposed both. He seems to like his free time for himself.

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mrz · 06/02/2011 11:56

Did his teacher suggest anything to help him?

From what you have written (but obviously that is only a snap shot of your son) I would also be considering social communication issues.

bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 11:57

Yes mrz, exactly what I was thinking.

IndigoBell · 06/02/2011 12:39

Now he is getting labelled as a poor listener in school only 5 months in and as someone who needs extra help. It is worrying.

You really shouldn't be worried that he's getting (or needs) extra help.....

They are telling you he's not very good at listening, and you agree. So it is great that they have picked up on this and are trying to work out how they can help him...

If he needed extra help with reading or maths would you be worried???????

SDeuchars · 06/02/2011 16:31

I don't want to home educate him for the reasons I have already given

I don't think you did give reasons for not home educating? Or did you mean for social reasons and also his writing skills are only average for his age?

If you don't want him to be marking time and to be learning interesting things at the level he is at, you may be better home educating. There are many local EHE groups so there does not need to be a problem with spending time with other children - it just wouldn't be 30 hpw with 25+ children all born in the same 12 months.

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 18:53

Hi, I'm not worried that the school is giving him extra help - of course it is a good thing. I was asking, more, for advice on how you encourage a child to listen when they do not have much motivation to do so. I was also wondering if it is because he is academically able and wondering what others think of that (am a bit embarrassed to say it - it's a classic middle class excuse isn't it?)

Re home edding, I had considered it but he does actually like school (so he says) and if he has social problems then it is probably better to get them sorted early and school is a good environment for this.

mrz - by social communication issues do you mean that basically it sounds as if he is struggling with interaction with others?

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bigTillyMint · 06/02/2011 18:59

this might explain a bit more about social communication issues

mrz · 06/02/2011 18:59

I would be looking for input from a Speech and language services if a child in my class/school displayed the behaviour you describe but I am basing that on very limited knowledge of your child in context so can only speak in very general terms.

juuule · 06/02/2011 19:04

I think you need to be clear about what you are sending him to school for.
From your original post I can't see that there are really any benefits for him attending school at this point.

Fiddledee · 06/02/2011 19:32

Change schools to a more academic/science ones - many private schools have science lessons from reception

mrz · 06/02/2011 19:38

All state schools have science in reception Fiddledee as they follow the same statutory curriculum as private schools

mummytime · 06/02/2011 19:55

I would also say the exploring science would appeal more than the learn facts science of some private schools.

Have you talked to him about listening, and why it is important? Maybe give him some more input about the school day, and why it is important for him to listen at times (even if the information seems obvious/uninteresting for him).

I would also be monitoring this situation carefully. Especially to see how much he can empathise with others.

Original poster

fannyfoghorn · 06/02/2011 20:23

All the input is helpful, thanks everyone.
mummytime, he definitely is empathetic. He gets very upset if he sees someone else is upset and loves babies and younger children. He is also good at identifying with emotions portrayed in poetry/music etc.

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pinkhebe · 06/02/2011 20:32

my son was given something to fiddle with during carpet time, that helped him concentrate. But find out how the school will encourage the listening and maybe you can reinforce it in the same way at home.

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