Why is MN so obsessed with reception reading?

[skiphopskidaddle]

It's a marathon, not a sprint. It doesn't matter if Johnny is on red and Amy is on lilac as (a) different schools go at different paces and (b) children develop different skills in different order.

I can't quite believe the number of reception reading threads I've seen this week along the lines of "what colour book is yours on?". I'm going over to the behaviour/development board now to check for obsessive posting about when children learn to walk. Cos it doesn't matter either, in general.

I think I hear a penny dropping! Sorry Hullygully I should have worked harder at my reading in those early years, then maybe I'd follow this better. How do I namechange to "Thicky"?

I very much doubt that learning to read in the English language is the cause of children being miserable.

Children start P1 when they are aged between 4.6 and 5.6 years old in England they start reception when they are between 4 and 5 years old so very little difference

Hully - why did they only have a beginners grasp of French and Latin? I can only assume that you weren't being supportive enough to have allowed this to happen. Tut tut

Good schools don't label children bright or thick at 4, and certainly continue to treat 'bright' ones (if thats how you define a 4 year old who can read) as such and disregard the rest. There should be continual assessment and movement of children - learning does not follow a continuous straight line. If you've only had experience of poor education which is turn has shaped your views, then I offer my sympathies.

My DS (5 in Y1) is a happy outgoing and sociable little boy who asks lots of questions and enjoys school - I want to hang on to that. He just reads fine for his age, but now is not the time to push him.

Hully - mine is fluent in German and has a beginners grasp of Spanish. Next week he starts his A-level Maths.

It fascinates me (the obsession on here). The important thing is actually the quality of the home learning environment and notably the quality of the spoken language. Speaking to your children under 5 is the key to long term success.

I do wonder how many reading obsessed mothers are quite happy to leave their children for long hours with unqualified eastern European nannies.

Maisie - I'm afraid you're being terribly naive if you honestly think the first impressions made by a child at school don't follow them throughout their primary school lives and in turn become largely self-fulfilling.

Look at how many professional sports people are born in the first half of the academic school year. Because they are bigger and stronger than their class mates, they are identified at an early age as being more able. Their teachers expect more of them, and they are given access to better coaching, more opportunities, greater expectation, etc. Simply put, because of those early impressions, they are expected to do better and lo and behold, they do better.

Anyone who thinks this doesn't happen in EVERY school with respect to academic intelligence is living in a cloud land. With cuckoos.

A good start is vital.

"When I interviewed people I almost never asked them what ORT level they were on at reception"

i am still laughing at that! Brilliant!

my reception boy has no interest in reading, but is enthusiastic, lively and enjoys school. i hope he will fall in love with books later on like i did.

i have several degrees but was not bright or a quick reader at primary, i do not think it predicts outcome does it?

changeisagoodthing....I made the decision to stay at home with my girls until they were both in full-time school, they have never been looked after by an Eastern European Nanny! I am very interested in my daughters' reading progress and whether they are being challenged by their reading, (amongst hundreds of other things that they do of course). I do think that children should understand from an early age that they should try their best and really think about what they are learning, and try to work out what may seem difficult at first, such as reading.

Both my girls have very good spoken language and often this is a significant factor in good reading ability. Children cannot read extensive vocabulary particularly in context if they don't already know the words and their meanings.
Incidentally my girls love playing with dolls and toy kitchens and all the things that you woudl expect a 3 and 4 year old 'should' be doing, but at the same time I believe that children should by this age be starting to understand that there are things that they have to be prepared to concentrate on and make an effort with.

would...obviously

one reason why this obsession with reading is so damaging is that it reinforces a cycle of failure for late bloomers.

I used to teach Y3 and I lost count of the number of boys who enter Y3 disliking school, reading in the bottom third of the class with 2/3 years of 'failing' behind them.

Then during y3, because the penny doesn't drop for many boys with reading until age 7 ish, during y3 they suddenly take off and reading clicks and they go from strength to strength and finish the year in the top third, enjoying school again.

I do wish we would back off with reading until later.

None of mine could read in reception ..but they can all read now as adults

steppemum...but how would you deal with the divide between children who really do want to read early? Those who ask what things say at an early age? Surely this should still be backed up at school?
Surely if the education system is not based around reading in reception, other changes may need to be made and it would all move towards a system of not starting more formal education until later.

Actually I ahve no problem with not starting formal education later.
I would love to see reception (and all pre-schools) much less reading based and much more about the depth and breadth of educational experience.
In Holland they don't start teaching reading til 7. they start school at 5 and do 2 years of wonderful stuff. loads of stories, language rhymes, counting songs, games, craft, nature, exploring science, visits to the farm and proper structured play, which seems to have been forgotten by everyone these days.

I have no problem encouraging those who are ready and going for it, but the point is that Dutch parents don't demand it of schools either.

My dd is 3 and is learning her alphabet, she finds the first letter of her name where-ever we go, and I love to encourage her, and it may be she is reading before she goes to school, but I would be happy if she had a dutch style school.

In Europe we start earlier than anyone else. Switzerland is the latest and (many of) them have to deal with the difference between spoken and written german. But by the time children are 10 the differences in start ages have disappeared.

Starting reading later usually means learning much faster.

sorry, that should say:
of all the countries in Europe, we in England (and Wales?) start the earliest.

I personally don't think that everyone has forgotten about all those other aspects of learning that you mention that are of course crucial to a child's development.

In many other parts of Europe from what I know, while children may not start formal school until later, many have been in nursery/pre-school for several years and can actually read etc anyway. The things you mention that they do in Holland are what children do in England too at school.

And I never quite understand the argument that if you wait until a later age to learn something it will happen faster, why bother with a whole host of stuff then, many things would be easier if you waited until later! Perhaps the difference is that their schools are better, so they have been at no disadvantage to formally start later.

well, in Holland, no, the kids don't learn to read at nursery or pre-school, and reading isn't taught there. I know that my swiss friend tells me that their kids don't read pre-school either.

I think that a lot of time in reception is taken teaching reading and not enough doing the rest.

I disagree with the schools are better line. The point is that if you teach at 5 it takes 2 years and if you start at 6 it takes one. (for example) This is huge for the child. The rewards of quicker feedback and success do make a difference. (see my previous post about y3 boys)

The statistics for the schools having averaged out by age 10 is taken right across Europe, different start ages and different school systems, different languages but it averages out by 10, regardless of when you start.

BTW I wasn't suggesting that MN posters had forgotten the rest, or even the teachers more the system and our expectations as a society

I really should learn to punctuate, it would help.....

I think that there are many countries other than the two that you have mentioned, and perhaps even including them where reading is taught in pre-schools or by parents. Other European countries are no different to the UK, there will parents who teach their children skills before school and those who don't regardless of the age that they start school.
There are some very general statements here, children are different. Feedback and achievement should not only be instantaneous, why shouldn't children also learn the concept of concentrating and working hard to achieve? My 3 and 4 year are very pleased at their achievements in reading amongst other things.
Actually I do believe that schools are often better elsewhere than England. Now this is something I don't really know about and that is class sizes elsewhere? I know that in my daughters' school reading does not take up too much time at the expense of other things, but then there are only 12 children in my eldest daughter's mixed Reception and Yr1 class. What size are classes elsewhere in Europe?

Actually just done a quick google search and confirmed as I thought, we have much larger state classes than elsewhere in Europe, the extra years must be needed to get round to everyone in the class

I'm afraid I'm not being 'terribly naive' at all, BristolJim. Having 3 children and experience of primary, secondary and nursery levels of education, I certainly haven't come across a situation where any of them have been pigeon holed at an early age. They go to excellent schools, so presumably that has affected my opinion. I'm sorry if your experience has not been similar.

evolucy, my experience from Swedish nurseries and playschools is that they are heavily focused on practical skills and outdoors activities: the children are taught to prepare their own lunch and make clay candleholders and recognise common plants, but not actively expected to learn to read.

Some Swedish children will have learnt to read before they start school, but this is because they teach themselves (as I did) or pester some adult to teach them- not because they are sat down and made to learn. As far as I am aware, none of my many nephews and nieces learnt to read before they started school: but they had plenty of other skills instead and they all learnt very quickly once they did start.

So it is a very different system. A system where a 5yo might or might not be able to read, but would probably be able to handle a hammer and saw, and bake a sponge cake. Which is another way of learning to concentrate and gaining a sense of achievement.

I thought I was very clever because I learnt to read at age 5: this confidence has stayed with me throughout my life and has encouraged me to go for higher education and an academic career.

My ds learnt at the age of 4 that he was less clever than his peers, because he couldn't learn how to read and write: this is the self image he still has at the age of 10.

Of course parents everywhere will encourage what children are interested in whatever it may be, some read early, some play sports and others do Lego or playdough? And they learn more by enjoying role play at 3-4 than parents trying to communicate to them to work hard at reading and give their best!

Its more important to read to and talk to them - parents do the reading for them to make them learn and understand lots and lots of different vocabulary and how the world works. So what's the point of spending a whole year reading 'cat' or 'bug on mat'?

I was looking for something similar for my DS to read in German but most of the stories for the first reading year in Germany were much too advanced and he asked me to read them to him.

Gabid - I completely agree with reading to them and talking to them and role play etc, but I disagree that all children learn more by just enjoying role play at 3-4 than also learning to try their best through something such as reading which is crucial. This is the way our education system is set up, if parents disagree that's fine obviously, but let's face it, it is how it is. Do children spend a whole year reading 'cat'? I'd question the teaching and class sizes if that is the case.